To send my children to school today even though they are unwell and clearly contagious

[sicknotez]

They both have nasty coughs/colds. I know that the best thing for them would be rest (and their inhalers). I know they are clearly contagious.

But under the new rules as I understand I would need a doctor's note or it would be unauthorised absence? And it doesn't seem right to waste a stretched doctors time with this when they don't need anything prescribing.

So I guess I send them into school and wait for school to send them home and in the meantime they will infect their teachers and classmates?

It seems like a stupid new system to me.

They both have chronic conditions so it's likely they will need quite a number of days off in the year. Despite this they are both steaming along in top sets. They love learning and hate missing school and would happily do work at home when ill if teachers sent them some

What makes me mad with this approach is that my reception age daughter had a terrible cough for about 6 weeks, which she needed an inhaler for and a chest xray. It was so persistant that it was making her vomit daily, so for almost 2 weeks I kept her off. Towards the end of the 2 weeks the school were already pressuring me to send her back in quoting all the 'right to an education' act, despite me saying her cough was still making her vomit. They firmly said it was fine they would keep an eye on her. What is wasn't happy with was to hear that on some of the days she was back she was vomiting in the toilets by herself age 5. I complained, there are all sorts of health and safety issues it can end up creating. They can not give the attention and care that they would get one to one at home, nor should they pressure parents to put their children in uncomfortable situations.

Drs do not do sick notes for school (unless very exceptional circumstances). What the OP has quoted is an entirely unsustainable policy.

No sick notes for less than a week for adults (statutory) either.

Having said that, there is an enormous amount of absence, since covid, for simple colds when children are well enough to study. Yes, they may be contagious - contracting and recovering from simple viruses is a normal thing for a human - but they are still permitted to be in company. I can understand why the school are trying to crack down on it as it is just so disruptive to education and that is what the school is judged on.

I think what all of these rules (and the response to them) show is that the social contract between schools and parents has broken down to a greater or lesser extent.

Part of that may be parents' fault but I don't think all of it is. Schools and teachers have a hard task to do, yes, but I think what the experience of the Covid years showed parents is that in times of stress they and their children will be happily thrown under the bus and left with very little care for their wellbeing. It's difficult to come back from that. Parents are now sceptical that schools have their children's best interests at heart. They don't see the harm in a holiday here and a mental health day there. So schools have to put in place ever-stricter and more ridiculous policies to counter bad behaviour and low attendance (including zero tolerance behavioural policies and strict attendance rules) and that just alienates parents and children further.

Completely different topic but it's a real shame that the recommended "summer of play" for kids post-Covid didn't eventuate. Instead, it was "same old, same old" and people wonder why so many kids are struggling.

7 snot filled Kleenex for each child.

And a video of a sneeze.

I agree with a lot of this. I don't understand the "oh don't send your child in to infect mine!" nonsense. Viruses circulating through groups in close contact is part of life, particularly in the winter months. I follow the school/NHS guidelines for exclusion periods but my DC do sometimes go to school with contagious illnesses that could be passed on to others (as do their classmates).

I got a letter from school at the end of last year implying that if my children's attendance was similar this year they would be considering fines. All their days missed were due to illness. All probably caught at school in the first instance.

A letter implying something is not fact @sicknotez

I asked if you would link to the 'new guidance' because you said it was LEA policy.

Do you have actual evidence? If it's LEA policy it will be in writing to you, or on a website.

Or, as you interpreting what is perhaps a standard letter sent to all parents whose children were off school a lot, as new guidance?

It's likely that the letter was automated - using the school registers- and sent to many parents. Disregarding the reasons for absence.

All you need to do if you feel worried is to set up a meeting with the headteacher and discuss your children's chronic conditions, adult to adult.

That will be far more beneficial than taking to a forum and complaining about something you may have misunderstood.

Exactly this. The approach of giving fines is literally taking more money away from people that are often struggling. Taking money away from children. I have no idea how this stick approach is ethical! How about actually help people get their children in school or god forbid let them have a weeks holiday in term time. The prices are so sky rocketingly high I do not blame any parents for going on a holiday then.
Meanwhile the government has all their children in private schools, going on their cheap holidays outside of normal term times and lecturing the plebs on how their kids should be in school rain or shine and it’s the parents fault they are behind. Nothing to do with cost of living, poor pay in many jobs especially female dominated jobs, rising food, no funding for SEN, no funding for schools to invest in decent resources, failing NHS… the list goes on. But no it’s YOUR fault parents for not sending your child in with a bad cold for a couple of days.

Rant over.

Fines are for unauthorised absence. Holidays and truancy. Not illness. Your rant is irrelevant.

I’m talking about all of it so not irrelevant at all

Definitely don't miss the gp proof of illness days and I'm going back quite a few years now. Not sure why there's so much sneering on this thread like.

It was all about the mark. They wanted ill kid to be sent in so they could see for themselves and then I would be summoned to the school to collect them after they had had their mark. No matter how old they were in comp, I had to go down in person.

Many a row with attendance officer over their ridiculous policies. In the end a compromise of make a gp appointment for said kid was made. Send proof of that in and then cancel appointment. Batshit.

Emailed my kids school earlier and literally just got off the phone. They have reiterated that any illness, unless there is medical evidence from a doctor will be unauthorised and apparently it's down to the LA and director of attendance. I queried how that works with a virus or D&V where you wouldn't see a doctor for the first 2-3 days, as standard, to see if it cleared up. Told it's unauthorised. Asked how that works then when the fine system is for unauthorised absence, and illness is not meant to be included but they are. This could ultimately mean more sick children being sent in contagious. She didn't know. I've asked for it in writing as it even goes against their own updated guidance that was updated in Aug. I've told them I need it in writing for querying it with governors, LA and to send to MP.

Yes. "Implying" is clearly a crucial word here, as is "considering".

Did they clarify that they expect you to send in vomiting children?

That’s crazy. I bet that policy (if the school have understood it accurately) won’t last long.

Yep. There are a lot of assumptions about the innate reasonableness of schools and also the ability level of parents to recognise what policies mean and what's reasonableness. It's one of those areas where it's really obvious which demographics are over-represented on MN.

If they feel too sick to go in, they stay at home but a cough/cold is hardly diphtheria so if they’re okay other than that, in they go.

I think people are misunderstanding the guidance. You don't need to get a doctor's note or even see a doctor for your child to be authorised as sick FFS.

It's 5 consequetive days not 5 days in the entire year. It's actually quite unlikely I'd say that a child is going to be so poorly that they need longer than this off in one go.The majority of childhood illnesses you're way past being contagious by this point. I think it's about being sensible. I don't think a child can be kept off for every tiny snuffle/cough. If they were then the kids would never get to school and the parents would lose their job. Good for you if you can but most parents can't afford to be so precious about a harmless cold. My benchmark is if my dd has a fever or d and v or any other known contageous disease eg chickenpox then absolutely she stays off for 24/48 hours. If she seems too unwell in herself to function at school then she stays off. Otherwise she goes in. This I think would be the typical threshold for most people ITO calling in sick at work.

I wouldn't entertain any system that mandates getting a note from the GP. I am a GP. We cannot legally write a sick note for a school child nor would it be most GP's policy to write a private letter for such an uneccesary and trivial reason. The most they'd do is possibly print out the notes for any recent consultations as evidence.

We of course want to see a child who is genuinely in need of medical attention but if you're confident that your child has a self-limitting illness then please don't waste a professional's time just to placate school. The same goes for toilet pass requests. If I'm asked to provide this I write in the child's notes with any notes about their medical issue and then 'child x is reporting that they are being denied access to the toilet and requesting a toilet pass. It is my professional opinion that no child should be denied the basic human right to use toileting facilities whenever necessary' which hopefully makes clear to the school that I'm not getting involved in such pompous nonsense.

Yes they do because it's secondary school. They said in primary school you can keep a child off, in secondary you can't.

People are stating some things here that are incorrect - or at least incorrect for some schools.

It's not specified as 5 consecutive days unauthorised absence - the time period is a bit woolly but the guidance implies 5 days in a 10 week period, and some schools seem to be interpreting it as 5 days anytime in the year.

Also people saying illness will always be marked as authorised - well yes it should be, but different schools are interpreting this differently. At my DD's school, some of her absence last year was recorded as authorised but 10 days were marked as unauthorised, even though I phoned in every day. They were all for cold-type viruses that she gets really knocked by since having post viral fatigue / long COVID.

It sounds like we are in a similar situation to the OP, with kids with a chronic condition, needing to be off school more than usual, but not generally meeting criteria for an NHS appointment, therefore no evidence. I feel quite worried about this and it sounds like the OP does too.

If it was at my school, I would be raging. I'm SO sick of my child missing Thursdays and Fridays and having a crap weekend because sone selfish arse has sent their kid to school, obviously ill, to sneeze and snot all over my healthy child.

It sounds like you're raging at the wrong target and that at least part of your wrath should be directed at schools' policies.

If parents are told that they have to send sick children to school, they can't be blamed for doing as they are told.

See, this insanity is not unique to my childrens school

This is the same at our secondary. They've written to parents to say absence which runs for 2 days+ requires medical evidence in order to be authorised.

Your MP may wish to write to the Schools Minister for a view on the Local Authority's position, given DfE's statutory guidance.

If this is genuine then please fight it. It's ridiculous. Kids get sick and the majority of the time should not need to be seen by a doctor. It's ridiculous to mandate that a parent literally wastes a school's time. I would involve your MP and possibly the local GP surgeries who will hopefully implore the school to reconsider