Or should GP surgery's not be allowed to advertise themselves as 'pro-life'?

[Clownwithafrown]

I'm job hunting and came across an ad for a medical receptionist at a GP surgery. I wasn't sure where exactly this particular surgery was so googled it and this statement was on the home page; 'The Doctors here at xxxx Surgery are committed to a 'pro-life' policy. This means that the Doctors value each individual’s 'life' from conception to natural death.'

I'm not reading that wrong am I, they are stating that they're anti abortion aren't they? Surely that shouldn't be allowed at an NHS practice should it? I'm a bit gobsmacked that it's blatantly there on the home page, literally the first thing you see when you click on the site. And it clearly means all the doctors, I mean obviously people don't have to register with that surgery but for there to be no options for those who already are registered just doesn't seem right to me. Does anyone know if this is actually allowed?

If they have an obligation to refer women seeking termination then they do not need to state their position on abortion.

It's advertising their ideological position on an aspect of healthcare, that is not neutral and therefore not professional and should not be tolerated.

I strongly disagree. Of course they are allowed opinions, and of course no one should be forced to do a job that conflicts with their ethics. But if their religion / belief puts an obstacle in the path of a potentially vulnerable woman accessing healthcare, then don't be an NHS GP.

People have strong feelings on abortion either way.

It's far better that this is recognised and there are routes and policies that accommodate these views in clinicians and obligate them to refer patients elsewhere than have to act against their principles and potentially not do so properly. Say, by persuading vulnerable patients against their initial decision (either intentionally or by being uncomfortable making referrals and dissuading the patient without meaning to).

Far better that they have a simple obligation to say 'ring this number'

Re the job, it is legal. I think they're being transparent about it. Perhaps you could call and ask how it works in practice, ensuring that patients, particularly vulnerable patients, access the services they need (in line with their own beliefs) without oversight from the GP. If you'd prefer to work somewhere without those policies that's understandable. I'd ask tactfully, because you've never come across the policy.

Signposting it clearly means they shouldn't use the coy term 'pro-life' and use plain English

They need to use the phrase 'forced birth'

"We believe in forced birth meaning that if you are pregnant you must continue to give birth whether it will risk the life and health of you, your foetus or others.

Please don't ask for us any further support on preventing this situation because we will not provide it"

@FOJN "If they have an obligation to refer women seeking termination then they do not need to state their position on abortion.

It's advertising their ideological position on an aspect of healthcare, that is not neutral and therefore not professional and should not be tolerated."

This really is the crux of the matter. A doctor has no obligation to perform abortions. He or she does have an obligation to refer a patient to someone who does in a completely non judgemental way.

I dunno. My friend had this experience. Baby had stopped growing at 17/18 weeks I think it was, they went on and on about an abortion even after she had been clear that she wasn’t going to do that. It was a massively traumatic time for her and that aspect made her very uncomfortable. They were clear that they didn’t trust her judgment and felt she was making a mistake or taking an “unnecessary risk”.

That baby is a healthy five year old now, by the way.

I guess all the doctors in this practice are anti abortion? Otherwise, they would direct all patients to the one(s) who isn't/aren't

But to reiterate - they aren’t blocking any services so this statement is clearly just to assert the fact they will judge women requesting these services - it’s a nasty, passive aggressive pointless thing to do.

That's awful

I think many women opting for a termination would rather know upfront that they will be seeing someone who supports them so think making it clear you are pro-life helps with the decision of who to go to.

Exactly. Think this poster must be my mil, she also used the same language. Also the poster is tragically misinformed because this is how a dr died in Ireland, she was refused an abortion in the same situation and died of septis. There are some ignorant and stupid people in the world.

A GP knows exactly what 'pro life' means. It isn't an ambiguous term at all. The message there is that they do not support abortion. I don't know whether this covers contraception/ MAP, family planning advice.

It seems an odd area of medicine to go into in the UK when there are so many other options that would have very little to do with reproduction.and GP has so much. It's annoying because their beliefs forfeit female patients the most but at least they're transparent about it and duty bound to refer elsewhere.

You think it’s good they advertise this? So should doctors also be able to refuse (and promote that refusal) to treat gay men, because they’re homophobic? Or would advertising such a thing be considered hateful?

Ive already said I agree individual doctors should have a choice, but I don’t agree you should advertise it like this, or exclusively recruit doctors with the same opinion. Women are tax payers too, we fund the NHS and these doctors, if you don’t like working for a PUBLIC service, then don’t work for one, but don’t try and change its structure to conform with your own beliefs.

There is no such thing as neutral healthcare.

The right to be a conscientious objector to abortion is enshrined in the 1967 Abortion Act. Many individual GPs are pro life and referring on to others is not controversial.
I knew many nurses, mainly Irish, who wouldn't take part in abortion care in hospitals and it wasn't an issue.
If there is a move to allow assisted dying, I would expect doctors to be allowed to opt not to play a role in it. I would be appalled if a right to death zealot demanded that they take part as they are paid by the tax payers.
Society rubs along so much better when we learn to tolerate others with opinions that don't align with our own.

Its outrageous that tax payer funded bodies are procuring services from partnerships which as policy refuse to provide a sizeable chunk of those services.

The ethical issue can be met by individual HCPs in a practice being able to opt out of providing this advice but a practice is an NHS sub contracted entity which should provide the full range of primary care. It also suggests they discriminate on employment.

Rural areas would particularly be affected but tere are many areas in towns and cities where there is no real choice about GP practices - you end up with whichever has a space. Rather like the myth that you can "just go to another pharmacy" when the only accessible units refuse to provide MAP. I wonder how many patients are even aware that they are joining a practice which is anti women's basic rights?

I would not trust a practice with this policy to give objective and impartial advice on contraception - some hormonal contraceptives are already banned in pro life parts of the world because they prevent implantation rather than fertilisation which is exactly the rationale used for refusing IUDs by the policy.
Women die because when they can't get treatment for a miscarriage/dead foetus due to this kind of attitude.

@WorriedMutha "Society rubs along so much better when we learn to tolerate others with opinions that don't align with our own"

I assume you are aware of the irony of this statement in the context of the thread?

IME your worry is justified, Longtimelurkerfinally posts

The comment in their policy statement about directing patients elsewhere is likely included to cover themselves legally, but I've been involved professionally with HCPs who object to abortion and know very well that some will do whatever it takes to prevent access and manage this under the legal radar

My own position is that personal beliefs are just that ... personal, and that while they should be fully respected it's utterly inappropriate to force them onto others in any sphere, be it healthcare, education or anything else

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. If I were a woman seeking an abortion, I'd be glad for the heads up. It might save me having an uncomfortable experience, and might help me get more timely care than having to get a referral and other appointment with someone else.

I think offering care to people of whatever sexual orientation, even if you disagree, is different than asking someone to be an active participant in a termination when it goes against their conscience. I've supported people in situations I don't agree with before, because it was a neutral act for me. That's different to participating.

A closer parallel would be the argument about whether bakers should be able to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a situation they don't agree with.

I'm sorry but all those stating doctors should be forced to do this doesn't sit right with me. Imagine being that vulnerable and having a doctor who clearly hates you have gone through with an abortion? NO THANK YOU.
All the posters claiming "well they shouldn't be NHS GPs" - why exactly? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Women will still get the help they deserve and need. Just because you demand a service, doesn't mean ALL doctors need to provide it then and there.
As for long lasting contraception, my GP doesn't offer things like coils and IUD because they need specialist fitting so you have to go to a specialised clinic?
MAP is available at most pharmacies now too.
Demanding doctors or nurses to do procedures they morally object to isn't the way to go.

I say this as someone who had a termination (as a teenager) and had a nurse sit and cry in the corridor after she told me I had passed the embryo. I felt numb, then relieved. She was obviously devastated which made me feel so guilty.

No, it would not be closer as it has nothing to do with health care and is a private service, not a public one funded in part by women. They’re not being asked to perform the abortion, just do their job and make a referral. If you can’t handle that, your in the wrong job.

A referral yes. But what if the job was asking you to drive the woman there and support her through the procedure? I've known someone in that position who refused to participate.

I think they should just be prevented from taking on women of reproductive age, tbh. And they should state they don't provide xyz services - pro-life is a misnomer, no one is pro-death and anti-choice positions can cause death (like that poor woman in Ireland)

Not sure what you mean?

If a doctor can opt out of providing this service but has to signpost women to other service providers then why do I need to know their personal feelings on the matter?

Given the name of the surgery and the stated beliefs I’d assume it’s a catholic practice. On that assumption I find the statement quite useful ie I’m not catholic and don’t have those beliefs so I wouldn’t join that surgery. I wouldn’t like to get a shock otherwise if I hadn’t understood that before signing up. I expect the transparency is a good thing in that the patients are aware that their doctors share these core beliefs (which people have pointed out numerous times are allowed in law) and will therefore advise them in a way that doesn’t conflict with their religion?