Am I a cf for asking a farmer this question?

[Whye]

We want to buy a house which is off a rarely used but fast winding country lane - only wide enough for one car. The speed limit is 30 but we have seen cars zooming along. I would not feel safe walking my dog on these country roads. There are some woods nearby but I would probably have to load dogs up each time for the 2 min drive.

There are fields all around. Would I be cheeky to ask the farmer who owns the fields opposite us if I could potentially walk my dogs on the perimeter of his fields, obviously I will pick up messes and be respectful.

We would be 5 mins from a decent sized market town so there are plenty of options just not convenient. Am I being cheeky?

I don't think you can rely on this, so go on the assumption something could change even if the farmer agrees.

@OrwellianTimes

I grew up in the countryside, and I know those rural roads. I don’t have dogs but I have had babies in buggies, toddlers, and small children, and if it wasn’t safe for us to walk out our gate for a 15-minute ramble without constantly being on alert to jump into the verge, I wouldn’t be buying the house.

@Whye Firstly you say you like pavements - most rural areas don't have them! I can understand your point about walking on narrow country lanes, but once again they occur quite frequently in rural areas and you do get used to them.

Moving onto to asking a farmer to use their land - the difficulty I think you will have is you need to move in first, get to know the locals which will include the farmers and then take your time to eventually asking the question about using land. It all takes time though, the one thing I can guarantee to annoy locals and farmers alike is to jump in feet first with requests such as using fields. It is just the way it is in rural areas.

Farming family and know many other farmers, a livestock area, and family will happily say to some locals, if no stock in our fields feel free to go in them. Others do they same for us - some farmers though, even if we know them, do not want anyone or their dogs in their fields. There are many footpaths across fields anyway, so you may find you only have to walk on the small lane for a short while with your dogs at heel.

Well quite a few of those stats are town planning issues, not really anything to do with farming.

I suggest the simplest solution would be opening up all the royal estates and national trust properties and rich peoples lands for free access for all - thousands and thousands of acres of land that are not used for farming.

You are angry at the wrong people.

Under no circumstances buy a house based on a permission which can be withdrawn at any time.

You can't do that on all roads.

Where I used to live a lot of roads the hedge leaves/branches would actually be touching the car, they would get that overgrown. Even trimmed back there was nowhere for a pedestrian to walk and they were too full and tall to walk into.

Any pedestrian on those roads would be in serious danger of getting hit as they wouldn't be able to get off the road.

The roads are probably wider than you think. Certainly even if the hedges/banks are high there’s usually a couple of feet wider than a vehicle or they’d be much more challenging to drive down.

You can ask, but I doub5bthe farmer will say yes. Would you allow your neighbour to walk In Your garden? It’s the same thing to a farmer.

We did just this when we moved in as our land is adjacent. We offered him money but he was happy for us to just walk the perimeter. Some people on this thread are just plain mean. She asked a question politely and some of you are just enjoying sticking the boot in for no reason. Anyway, it is possible! Just ask!

Just walk against oncoming traffic and you will be fine

The Vast majority of royal estates and national trust land IS used for farming, mostly by tenant farmers trying to earn a living. Those white things dotted over hills? They are sheep being farmed on upland farms. National trust land not farmed are generally nature reserves and are open to public to visit in line with nature conservation considerations (eg protecting breeding birds). Royal shooting estates in Scotland (eg Balmoral estate) are already free to access.

I do think there is a disconnect in this country with how food is produced. People seem to view agricultural land as parkland they should be able to use for recreation, building houses on, or banks of solar panels. Agricultural land needs much heavier protection or it won’t just be the rocketing cost of food that becomes an issue, it will be the basic availability of it.

@OrwellianTimes

If you look at old County Series maps there are hundreds of miles of footpaths and lanes that are no longer accessible to the public. A few different reasons but mainly Acts of Enclosure (which were one grabs from the public) and in the 1950s, the Parish Councils being in charge of the mapping process leading to the definitive map. A lot of landowners and farmers were actually on the Parish councils and probably didn't record any paths through their land conveniently.

As a start, we need to get these Lost Paths back on the definitive map.

National Trust do allow access to their land 'For ever, for everyone' is their motto.

Agriculture is only 0.6% of GDP.

A lot of the land that farmers own is for their own private use such as pheasant shooting in woodland (hence they don't want the public in there) or keeping horses.

On public footpaths near me, there is no litter or people trampling crops. Are you thinking about what happened in lockdown where there was insufficient public access available as it turned out for everyone? People were forced along narrow 2 feet wide paths in restricted and too few areas. If there were more paths the land may have had less of a hammering as people would have used different routes.

Its just a question - not cheeky at all!

What would be cheeky is walking your dogs on the farmer’s land if he says no.

You can only ask!

No, I am talking about security of food supply.

Whilst I don’t mind taking my dogs in the car if it’s wet - they dry off a bit in their crate - I think it’s crap to have to do it for a 2 minute drive - bad for the environment and a lot of faff.
However, check The Countryside Act; I’m pretty sure you can walk around field edges but equally could be wrong.
I, and many others, walk around local arable fields with no recourse. Obviously the dogs aren’t allowed to damage crops.
i think it’s worth asking especially as your purchase is dependent on his reply.

@LongtailedTitmouse

Scotland seems to manage okay? They have set up a comprehensive code that works

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/managing-access-your-land

There are plenty of conflicts, some in the courts. Population density is much lower and the availability of open land and forestry together means less pressure on lowland farms. There is also a much much smaller network of public rights of way footpaths so less practical access across farmland under cultivation.

"National Trust do allow access to their land 'For ever, for everyone' is their motto"

They are becoming more militant when there are footpaths across their land, which they should not attempt to stop people using. Anyone local to a NT property near Worcester, there are numerous public footpaths which go straight through, yet the NT have added signs on all the gates which say to go onto their property you must pay - this is totally wrong. A friend knew they could walk straight through and was chased by a NT volunteer telling them they couldn't.

The Countryside Act allows people to walk around the edge of fields - no it doesn't, the only time this is "allowed" is if cattle are in a field which, especially if you have dogs, may not be safe to walk through, the advice is to walk along the edge of the adjacent fields or other sides of hedges, walls, fences if possible.

Would you let your neighbours use your garden? That’s basically what you want of the farmer. It’ll be a firm no. Footpaths are a pain for landowners (rubbish, gates left open, scaring livestock, trampling crops etc) and so a farmer isn’t going to put himself in that position voluntarily.

Whilst it's good to hear that there is no litter or damage on public footpaths by you, that has sadly not been our experience. Over the 30 years I've been on the farm off the top of my head we've had -
Sheep maimed & killed by walkers dogs.
Husband physically & verbally assaulted for asking people to stick to footpath.
Our vehicle parked on our land whilst we checked another area of the farm deliberately damaged costing £1000s to repair.
Gates taken off their hinges/padlocks broken open to let livestock out causing hours of work and stress to animals to sort out plus damage to crops.
Padlocks glued so we can't get through
Youngsters using fields to sit and drink in leaving smashed vodka bottles and setting fire to a tree.
Dog chasing young cattle until they panicked and smashed through fence.
Child setting fire to a standing field of crop at harvest time.
Youngsters hurling rocks at tractor driver until one landed in cab
Youngsters riding quad bikes/motor bikes through crops
Youngster opening back of grain trailer and letting all the corn out.
Dumping of rubbish. Latest, this week, have used footpath to empty out bags of builders rubble which we will now have to clear and dispose of.
Going on land at night to shoot.
And of course tonnes of dog shit.
Not suggesting that OP would have any intention of doing any of this of course! But just want to show the behaviour that some farmers have to contend with and why they are reluctant to encourage more access.

We are farmers mainly sheep. We don't own the land we farm on. We also have sheep on for part of the year, hay is taken off at some point and beef cattle at other points. Every few years a crop of Fodder beets goes on some of it so you actually have 3 tenants using the fields at different points so all will have different views on it .

We always say no to any dog walker requests as we have never found someone who genuinely keeps their dog on a lead and picks up poo 100% of the time, there are also insurance implications if you have public access.

Also be aware that there is a blue tongue outbreak and already restrictions in some areas so livestock owners are not going to want anyone going anywhere near their fields. Any movement affects biosecurity on farms even outside of an outbreak & farmers have to show good biosecurity practices which are unlikely to involve public access.

There are also fields that look unused but may be in stewardship/subsidies which restrict what you can farm & do but it doesn't mean public have the right to access.

Once you've moved in & got a good relationship with the land owners and farmers it may be worth asking - we wouldn't be offended if someone asked but there are many good reasons why they would refuse. How would you feel if a neighbour asked if their DC or dogs could play in your garden? But if the house purchase depends on Access then unfortunately it's a very definite no as land tenants change, subsidies change etc so you could have access this week but then suddenly be refused next week.

A dog in a rural area often has less opportunities to explore off lead than a dog in a town with public parks etc.

The problem with the countryside is the land is all owned & the people farming on it are often not the ones who own it.

We are sheep farmers & don't own any of the land we farm on. It's all short term grazing we rent. We run out of grass and we move & someone else may move on short term. Some fields may have 4 tenants across the year & none of them own the land.

We always refuse dog walker requests unless it's someone we know (our vet for example or the hunt or fallen stock man) theres too much risk - biosecurity, public liability etc.

An empty field of grass may be for hay. We have constant battles with public accessing our hay fields 'just letting the dog run free as there's no livestock' 'isnt it nice for DC to run around' or even having bloody picnics in our 'empty Field'
We pay for it every winter when the silage & haylage is less than we hoped & what we have is peppered with dried dog shit (deadly to our livestock) plastic rubbish, poo bags etc which have the potential to kill our animals.