To think carers allowance rules are punitive and unfair

[UprootedSunflower]

Carers can claim carers allowance if they earn less than £151 a week, an equivalent annual total of £7852.

Last year I earned £5012. In my job my pay is irregular piece work through a casual contract. I have no control over the processing of claims, some are paid fast and passed on through my employer and others skip months. My employer has also made multiple payroll errors, delayed payments, part payments moved to the next month or back pay.

carers judge my earnings monthly, as I’m paid monthly. I don’t ever actually work over £151 hours a week/ £654 a month but due to my employers being all over the place I’ve had things like no pay one month, then double pay the next. I go over the limit for claiming.

Ive been told it doesn’t matter when I work, they judge the pay days.
it feels so unfair and punitive, I wouldn’t be in this low paid job if with such as disregard to my pay check if I wasn’t a carer.

Why wouldn’t my employer just offer the work to others. I have no employment rights remember if I push it. They can simply never contact me again. I have no leverage

Obviously I’ve politely discussed it a few times. They aren’t unpleasant but haven’t shown the capacity to deal with it

It is absolutely ridiculous. The whole system needs overhauling. It must be hell to deal with, I feel for you OP.

Sorry I didn't explain that well at all! It was based on people paid weekly, who have a pattern. Even if they are paid weekly, if there is a pattern they will average them out as if they were paid monthly, but if there isn't a pattern they wont.

I suspect quite a lot of long term carers would be happy enough with the option to be paid quarterly in exchange for being able to average their earnings quarterly. Certainly self employed ones would be likely to be, especially those trying to get out of the benefits trap.

It would still be a tick box “have they satisfied the threshold- yes/no, pay yes/no” just over a 1/4 instead of a week or month.

I suppose one problem doing it quarterly though would be the impact on other benefits, like UC, of receiving nothing for 2 months and then a big chunk at once each quarter.

Truthfully I don’t think there is any one way that would make everyone happy, there would always be someone who wishes it was different or who it doesn’t work well for. All the government can try and do is make it as simple as possible for the many many people who can & do claim.

The current system has been designed in a way that keeps people trapped on low incomes.

From what I've seen, the whole point is many self employed carers don't want to be on UC, and if they could average out over a 1/4 instead of monthly or weekly, wouldn't have to be claiming it. Many are self employed to manage around caring responsibilities.

Many currently are being pushed by the current system to earn less by their own endeavors, and claim more from the state.

Just giving the option to be assessed quarterly could lower the UC bill as well as giving more autonomy to carers wishing to do additional work.

sorry you, and many others, are in this situation.
carers is such a measly amount and should really be at least ft nmw in my opinion.

gig economy/zero hour contracts are a whole other minefield...

I understand, we’ve had some crazy times under UC.

Don’t take offence to this, but is it worth it? Can you earn an extra £10-15 a day elsewhere and stop claiming?

It isn't UC she's being hammered for irregular earnings on, it's Carers allowance!

Piece work and self employment can often be the only additional work carers can do, because they can do it around the care they provide, in a way that other work can't be done.

Carers allowance itself is unfair. In what other job can you be paid little over £2 per hour. no break, no holiday, no sickness. no nothing. It's shameful how this country treats unpaid carers who often care around the clock.

It is an absolute nightmare

I was having to ring every single month as it varied and it was like ending/starting it each time. They never really "got" that I was on a zero hours term time contract....

It isn't fit for purpose. Many of us are/were earning small amounts alongside caring and by its nature its often zero hour or sporadically paid

Sorry, I meant Carers. Am on it myself.

OP, is it possible that you can apply for a different job? You deserve rights in employment, especially under your circumstances and it makes me quite angry that you are contending with these issues when you are only trying to earn some money within the rules.

This is really common amongst variable hour /low paid contracts.

Mine was teaching adult Ed sessionally but depending when holidays /bank holidays fell and randomnbits depended what the monthly looked like

There’s not really many jobs that for around caring in reality. They want either fixed days, full time or Rotas. You’d end up sacked as a carer in many jobs. I have no idea what I’d do.
My employer is a large public body, not some tiny office. It’s just the norm

How do you report your earnings to them. I used to send wage slips but I call them now. I give the amount I get, net and gross. Could you do this each month regardless of whether you have been paid yet? It is a pain as ideally they should just average it out over the year.

I’ve come home to a letter stating that for 5 months of the year I claimed carers allowance when I was not entitle, and they are ending future claims.
I’m literally in tears and confused.
I earned around a £100 less than the limit looking at wage slips. Some months they’ve said I was entitled I earned more than in the months they’ve said I claimed when I wasn’t entitled.
I have no idea why or how it’s happened. My earning are around £511, when I have the letter stating I can earn £654 a month

I am so sorry you are going through this.

Have you thought about getting your MP involved? DWP has a tendency to mysteriously look into cases properly when they get an MP's letter. I think it would be worth a try, especially given the recent publicity around the issues with CA.

Really sorry to read this, sounds really stressful which is the last thing you need. Hopefully once you've got over the shock, you'll feel strong enough to appeal. CA should fluctuate on a sliding scale like UC does. I how they incorporate it, I don't understand why it was kept seperate.

My life has been completely dominated by caring for decades. My gripe is with the caring for over 35hrs a week to even be awarded anything at all. The person I cared for had fluctuating illness and regular crises that left me crippled with anxiety over what society actually expected or wanted me to do at any given time. Piss work off by keep needing time off at short notice to save the NHS emergency care costs, or carry on working and put the strain on services to provide inadequate care. Reduce hours to minimise impact on work and keep them happy, but then still not qualify for any carers allowance and lose income and future pension and be mightily judged for not working enough hours. Absolute hellish nightmare.

*hope not how 🤦‍♀️

The whole carers allowance system needs reworking. I’ve said before, the answer is to make familial caring a paid, taxable job with a paper trail. Not a ‘benefit’, it actually benefits no one bar excluding the carer from mandatory job hunting and causes stress like the op faces in the part time work they can do. Even if it means filling out paperwork/attending an interview to explain how you actually fulfill caring duties 35 hours a week. It would mean that carers have something tangible to put on a cv or any other paperwork if and when they want to move into other work/ventures. It would open opportunities to apply for social care training as you have the experience, but it’s not viable to say ‘spent several years as a carer for my child/parent/partner’ as it is now. It would mean that many people who are full time familial carers are not just seen as more people on benefits, it’s real work and should be paid as such.

I'm on CC and I try to visit my family the other end of the country once every few months, for three nights. I have to let DWP know a few days before I go then again when I 'resume my caring duties'. When I do the same for the dog with the microchip company they believe we'll be back when we say. I arrange care for my absence so I don't see why they even need to know.

I had an awful awful conversation with the dwp on the phone, he told me to ‘listen!’ But wouldn’t answer anything.

I’ve realised the root of this now I’m calmer.
Imagine I was paid on the 22nd

period not entitled 1 21/3/24 to 7/4724 (imagined dates)

ie two of my pay days fall into each period they’ve quoted, they haven’t used my pay days.
I’m paid the same date each month. If that day was a Saturday, or a Sunday or a bank holiday the pay will hit my account a few days early.

Effectively they’ve averaged out my pay in a way that for 5 period out of 12 in the year I’ve had two pay checks, and for 5 periods out of 12 I’ve had no pay checks

FFS

I'm very sorry that you are going through this, OP. It is too much on top of having to provide care, working, managing financially and not losing yourself in all that.

I think that Carer's Allowance and the administration of it is shockingly bad, shameful in 2024 and actually inhumane. We are talking about people who, at great personal loss, save the state and taxpayers sometimes millions of pounds in residential and paid carer costs. As well as experiences like the OP's with overpayment because of variable part-time pay, the other three major issues with Carer's Allowance are:

1. The deduction of every penny received in Carer's Allowance from Universal Credit and the Caring Element of Universal Credit. This can mean that carers, sometimes providing up to 24/7 care, are living in poverty in contrast to the family member they care for who has a more liveable income from Universal Credit, the LCWWRA Element of Universal Credit and DLA or PIP.
2. The ending of Carer's Allowance when the carer reaches State Pension age. A carer cannot currently receive State Pension and Carer's Allowance at the same time. This means that older carers are providing up to 24/7 care for absolutely nothing. This is hugely unfair and discriminatory.
3. That Carer's Allowance is taxable. A carer providing 24/7 care is receiving £81.90 for 168 hours a week of caring, which works out at 48p an hour. When that is taxed, for example because the carer receives a relatively small occupational pension, Carer's Allowance goes down to £65.52 or 39p an hour.

The Labour Government could and should, if they have any sense of fairness and compassion, make it a priority to fix this and quickly.