"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

So no one can agree on a male equivalent for Karen what about male equivalent for bitch? Slag? Slut? Tart? Hussy? Right Madam? Or any other strictly female insult.

Yes there are male insults dickhead, wanker etc but really think about the actual meanings

Which is entirely subjective.

Exactly. There are tons of misogynistic words to describe women and lots of sexist language. People who try and justify misogynistic slurs by saying women deserve to be called names because they are inferior to men are not the brightest.

On affair threads, I see terms used such as easy lay, cheap tart, home wrecker etc. Literally none of which ever apply to men. The best we can manage seems to be bastard, which can apply to any behaviour. The truth is that sexual behaviour does not lessen men's worth, but it does lessen womens worth.

Apply bastard to your dad and cheap tart to your mum, the meaning and emotion are completely different.

I was being sincere. I do lack intellect and need someone like you to educate me.

Tell me more about irrelevant random words. Please.

Man whore
Philanderer
Ladykiller
Deviant
Lady’s man

That's OK. Some people actually work it out.

Womaniser

PP: There isn’t a male equivalent for Karen

Another poster: Yes there is, it’s Keith
AP: Yes there is, it’s Gammon
AP: Yes there is, it’s Kevin
AP: Yes there is, it’s Ken
AP: Yes there is, it’s Darren
AP: Yes there is, it’s Chad
etc…

Exactly, except for the female whore, none of those are particularly insulting.

Yes! It is my name and I loathe it when other people use it lazily to show they disagree with someone expressing a view which is different from their own. Others are then wary of agreeing with Karen to avoid the label. Its use shuts down any meaningful debate. On a personal level I now hate saying my name aloud in public. How sadly ridiculous but it's true.

Every single act of misogyny has an explanation though.

Misogyny is always completely reasonable. To a misogynist.

If a person is behaving in an unreasonable manner, you criticise the behaviour, no? Not jump to a misogynist insult (or racist, ableist, classist, homophobic).

If you called someone a Darren in a group of people, do you think it would ‘shut that person down’? Or would many people just side eye wondering what on earth you were going on about? But if you labelled a woman a Karen, it has the same effect as declaring someone a racist, it’s a weighted word that has longterm effects.

Women have to double check themselves and every action they take to avoid being tarred with the label of Karen. Have you not ever stopped yourself making a valid complaint, or raise an issue because you’ve been concerned about being shut down in this way? Do you think men worry about being shut down when they make complaints or have a contrary view in case they get called a Darren/Ken/Kevin/Dave or whatever other irrelevant male name someone wants to throw in?

edit: @Mercurial123 @Blueybanditbingochilli for some reason my post didn’t quote!

I don't use the term Karen and I can see how it must be so upsetting and frustrating if it's your name, but there is a particular type of racism that white women levy against black women, and black men which the original term in the US referred to. This isn't just a US experience. My husband is black and he has to be so so careful around middle class white women who are highly suspicious of him and if he ever challenges that in a measured way they will burst into tears and he is the aggressor. I've also observed how many times my black female friends are challenged by white women in a way that would just never happen to me, and again if they query this they are told they are aggressive. It's absolutely unacceptable.

I think the use of names is always going to be problematic because you cannot escape the fact that names carry strong age/ class/ ethnicity markers. Whether it's intentional or not, using a name means specifying the type of man you are aiming the insult at. In the case of Darren - that's a working class man, probably middle-aged and white, but the main association is that it is working class.

There are plenty of UC entitled wankers, so why not choose Tarquin? There are plenty of young MC wankers too, so why not Alfie or Jack?

"Arsehole" or "wanker" gets the point across perfectly well without bringing classist / ageist etc. stereotypes into it.

Exactly. Those terms do not belittle a man. Men are seen as legends for being 'shaggers'. James Bond is a ladykiller. Women are seen as worthless and dirty for having sex outside of commitment. There's absolutely no equivalent insult.

How is it mysogynistic? I’m a female + I use the term. Infact I personally know a woman named Karen and she is a right Karen 😉 the term misogynist is used too lightly these days

I think Gammon is a derogatory, ageist, classist dismissive put down of a certain group of men, not the same meaning, but the same insulting dismissive quality.

But yes, Karen has evolved from its original context (a white woman who uses her race against a black man in the face of the law) and is a general ageist misogynist contentious put down of women.

There are insults for assertive women, clever women, all sorts of women that men perceive as a threat to their assumed dominance.

I better stop calling DH a Karen when he’s over the top then.

Why is she a Karen, though? Why not a 'your name'? Who decided a 'random but popular in the 70s name' should be used in this way?

🤣🤣 crazy. So black people should be grateful to live in a country that is less racist than other countries? Or should they, perhaps, be entitled to expect that NO country should be racist in the slightest?

Well having worked in various customer service roles in my youth (mostly restaurants/bars) it was overwhelmingly people (men and women) of an older, typically 40+ demographic who seemed to take a particular pleasure in making the lives of front of house staff a misery. They are the twats who think the mantra 'the customer is always right' gives them license to behave appallingly.

@Justcommentingby thats just great - try changing it to your name and see how you feel then.

Women can be misogynist too - shocker

I haven't seen it used for a long time. In fact I don't think I've ever heard anyone saying it IRL. It's kind of similar to 'chav' in that respect.
But obviously it's misogynist as it's squarely aimed at women. I do feel really bad for women named Karen as well. It was a very common name when I was growing up. It seems horrible that someone's name could have such a nasty connotation.