"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

Name changed as my name IS Karen and let me tell you, its fucking annoying. To have your name used in this way as a slur or insult to anyone who dares to question, stand up for themselves, challenge a situation.

When this all started I did used to feel self-conscious giving my name out but I trust that in real life situations with people with more than half a brain, they are not privately sniggering away to themselves.

However I have to say, I am frequently disappointed to come across people I follow on social media using the term. Especially other women the same age as me.

For those of you who have commented that there are different male names used to the same effect, there really aren't. Not in the UK. And whilst there has been some debate on here that we shouldn't get upset about it, you try substituting YOUR name and see how you feel. Its really depressing.

No it doesn't.

Setting aside the fact that many people do.challenge 'bitch', the simplest difference is that one of those terms is a lot of people's actual name.

How do you think it affects them? How would you feel if your given name was Bitch, and every time you introduced yourself you had to brace for the avalanche of 'jokes'.

🤣🤣🤣 so as women we should be ever so grateful that we live in a country that is less misogynistic than other countries?

Yep, I only edited it to add ‘There was not a SHRED of sympathy for me in your post, so clearly we are not allies.’

Thanks for the response.

It still very much means it for the black and other non white communities in the US and UK who have experienced racism and nastiness at the hands of this specific type of woman who dress it up as 'I'm just a helpless woman in a scary society'.

'Hysterical is derived from the Greek meaning womb. It's historically applied to women and was a big part of medicine for centuries. It's mysoginist to call a woman an hysteric.'

@Overbearingndn

And the word 'phone' means 'voice' in Greek origin. We don't go round saying 'I've tried to call your voice 5 times, please answer, it's urgent.'

It’s awful. “Karen” quickly changed from being a term that called our racism and abuse of privilege (and could have been applied to men equally) to out and out misogyny. Plus as you say, it’s very hard for people named Karen!

My teenager sometimes calls me “Karen” - lightheartedly but obviously not understanding the real problems with the word, because I do ask for discounts where appropriate and try to get good deals - all things I’ve learnt from my Dad tbh and not what Karen means. So when I get money off things - for example I got some money back on a holiday because they subsequently reduced the price, just by asking them politely - I say it’s my Karen money and “oh well I couldn’t buy you this if not for my Karen money”.

edit - teenager Dd, I wouldn’t find it funny from a teen ds!

This was when I google 'a male Karen.'

A couple of years ago I was in a local cafe/ bistro kind of thing with my husband and dc. We ordered cakes. My cake had what looked like cream piped on top except it was very hard. I said it to dh and asked him if he thought it was ok to eat.
I'm soft spoken as it is and I'd dropped my voice but the manager must have been eavesdropping. He came over and started calling me "madam", asking loudly what the problem was. I said I nothing but he made a big thing out of it and insisted on getting me a different cake, asking if it was "more to my liking" etc. I have very bad social anxiety and I was absolutely mortified. I couldn't understand it but stuff like this keeps happening to me since. I'm not a complainer, very mild mannered, but in shops, restaurants etc I keep being treated with this attitude, especially from younger people. One day it dawned on me, I must have crossed over to looking middle aged. People are treating me differently.
I think all this "Karen" stuff is awful, it fuels this attitude that people can treat middle aged women like crap. When I first heard of it I didn't think much of it, but now I do think the way it's largely used is definitely misogynistic and ageist.

That’s not what I’ve said. But the feminism on MN largely excludes BAME women, and that is shown when BAME women talk about their racism at the hands of white women and are met with tumbleweed.

That's my brother's name. He lives up to it ...

But in the UK we're supposed to pretend Karen isn't sexist and ageist because of the origins of the term in another country.

So why do so many on here use the word 'dick' (again without it attracting any comment), and do you really think all the Dicks of the world get "an avalanche of jokes" whenever they give their name? Don't be hyperbolic.

And Willy!

Less common nowadays I think, but fair point! I do know two Dicks, I don't know anyone who goes by Willy.

I think this is true. US English and British English are not the same language/dialect.

The meaning of a word is ultimately determined by its usage (which is why language evolves so quickly), and the words "woke" and "Karen" are simply not used in the same way here as they are in the US.

Nobody's name is Dick unless they want it to be. It's a nickname for Richard, and I'll eat my hat if there are any Dicks out there who feel belittled by their name being used, without capitalisation, to mean a penis. See also willy.

I am genuinely sorry that you feel the feminism on here excludes you. I have not noticed that at all but as I said previously as a white woman I can't tell you that it doesn't happen.
I consider myself a feminist and there is only 1 type of "woman" I would exclude from my feminism.
The type of misogyny and sexist shown here affects ALL women

It's horrible and very unfair to anyone who is named Karen. I didn't think it had caught on so much here in the UK, I haven't actually heard anyone say it in real life, only on the internet.

There's your answer then, it absolutely isn't a thing.

Only one of the Dicks I know has the full name of Richard. The other one is just Dick. That's how he was christened. But even if he had chosen it, why would you handwave it away like it's not a problem and like they can't feel belittled or embarrassed by it? I think you're being very selective to suit your argument which doesn't stand up in real life.

I would really encourage those that don't see it as a big deal to use the empathy generator. It's really quite jarring to see your name used in a derogatory way, over and over again.

If you genuinely think Karen is just the equivalent of bitch, just use bitch. Personally, I think it's misogynistic and I try not to, but if you don't have a problem with it then use the word for female dogs who are unlikely to care to express your contempt for women, rather than a name that's fairly common among English speakers who did nothing to you.

The meaning of Karen should be reclaimed as being a woman who knows her worth and stands in her own strength. I've got two good friends who do, and their name is Karen.