Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Stop being a Karen"

695 replies

ValsCupcakes · 05/09/2024 09:16

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:30

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 21:00

Duchess, I'm providing receipts, while you provide goose egg, zilch, nada.

More;

"Political rights have been circumscribed by race, class and gender since the founding of the United States, when the right to vote was restricted to White men of property. Throughout the history of the United States, race has been used by Whites for legitimizing and creating difference and social, economic and political exclusion."
Leland T. Saito, Associate Professor of Sociology and American Studies & Ethnicity at University of Southern California.

Today, African people in america own 1.5% of national wealth; they are 14% of the population (that's 48 million descendants of slaves). In 1863, they owned 0.5% (so a whopping 1% growth).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/06/19/why-racial-wealth-gap-persists-more-than-years-after-emancipation/

The white supremacist Mount Rushmore (sculpted by a KKK member)

Four figures on it:

george Washington: owned 600 slaves in his mount Vernon plantation. Signed the fugitive slave act 1793 (to enact the fugitive slave clause of the constitution), enabling him to recover his escaped slaves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FugitiveSlaveActof1793

thomas jefferson: owned 600 slaves in his monticello plantation, raped at least one (that we know of), and also wrote "blacks were inferior to whites in the endowments of body and mind", before adding "The improvement of the blacks in body and mind, in the first instance of their mixture with the whites, has been observed by every one, and proves that their inferiority is not the effect merely of their condition of life".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotesontheStateofVirginia

abraham lincoln: had no interest in freeing slaves prior to later life, and only did so to "save the union", otherwise he would have maintained the status quo, and in a 1858 debate he stated: "I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I as much as any man am in favor of the superior position assigned to the white race."
Abraham Lincoln (1989). Speeches and Writings 1832–1858: Speeches, Letters, and Miscellaneous Writings : the Lincoln-Douglas Debates. Vol. 1. Library of America. p. 638.

theodore roosevelt: on the frontier anti-Native sentiment where the white settlers were ethnically cleansing the indigenous people, in 1886 he stated: "I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth"
Cary Michael Carney (1999). "Native American Higher Education in the United States". pp. 65–66. Transaction Publications

All this, and the six race laws it pioneered

White only citizenship (1790)
White only vote
Racial segregation (white only schools, housing, graveyards etc.)
Anti-literacy law (white only education)
Anti-miscegenation (no race mixing/interracial marraige, until 1967)
White only immigration (until the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImmigrationandNationalityActof1965 )

The Karen (racist american woman) ran alongside all of this discrimination. When you understand the hell that non white people have gone through there you will cease getting worked up by its trivial misuse here.

Edited

I’m telling you that in order to argue that the US is more racist than colonial nations, you must consider all the data, you aren’t doing that, so your argument - given that we all know how appalling colonialism was - is void.

We’ve already established that the use of Karen has become much broader, so no, it’s not trivial to point out that it’s sexist and ageist.

You cannot just cut n paste wiki and ChatGPT and think you are making a case for anything, you are not.

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:31

armadillio · 05/09/2024 21:38

No one said white women had more power than white Ken.

You’re being deliberately obtuse. A white woman saying a black man looked at her funny gave the white man the perfect excuse to beat him up or lynch.

Read a book sometime.

Edited

And this connects with the argument that Karen isn’t a sexist or ageist term.. how?

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:34

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 21:22

It shows the white supremacist entity the Karen was formed in.

The Karen (racist american woman) didn't just appear out of thin air.

You have to understand the culture it was created in. The white woman was the highest standard of woman in a white supremacist entity that is america. She was precious. If a black person so much as looked at her he could be in serious trouble. Race riots, lynchings etc. were instigated by the Karen, while the man was the muscle who carried out the acts.

No, race riots and lynchings were not led by white women and merely carried out by men. That is complete nonsense.

Overbearingndn · 05/09/2024 22:40

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:34

No, race riots and lynchings were not led by white women and merely carried out by men. That is complete nonsense.

Everything eventually becomes the fault of women. It's the law.

ThisGreatHazelKoala · 05/09/2024 22:44

Lndnmummy · 05/09/2024 21:57

Heartbreaking. What gets me every single time on these threads is the aghast indignation at the term Karen, rather than the behaviour of the people being labelled the term. It is infuriating and heart breaking in equal measure.

Endless whataboutery, page after page after page.

White privilege.

White privilege
has nothing to do with a white male telling a white woman in a small market town in southern England that she is a Karen because she objects to nearly being knocked over by a white youth cycling on a pavement.

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 22:45

ThisGreatHazelKoala · 05/09/2024 22:44

White privilege
has nothing to do with a white male telling a white woman in a small market town in southern England that she is a Karen because she objects to nearly being knocked over by a white youth cycling on a pavement.

100%

I’ve never heard the term ‘Karen’ to be used to call out racist people in the UK. I’ve only ever heard it when women have stepped out of line, complained or been assertive.

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 22:47

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:30

I’m telling you that in order to argue that the US is more racist than colonial nations, you must consider all the data, you aren’t doing that, so your argument - given that we all know how appalling colonialism was - is void.

We’ve already established that the use of Karen has become much broader, so no, it’s not trivial to point out that it’s sexist and ageist.

You cannot just cut n paste wiki and ChatGPT and think you are making a case for anything, you are not.

Duchess, america is an imperial entity.

Unless you think that land (of white settlers) just fell out of the sky?

Hawaii, did it just magically appear too?

An entity formed through the dehumanisation of a Native people (not "savages" america, PEOPLE) in its "founding" document, state sponsored massacres, and ethnic cleansing, with the tiny number of those who survived put in cages. And then, to work this now emptied fertile land, African slaves...millions of them.

It is a monstrous, race based entity. It's why the Karen came into being there.

A pro slavery national anthem written by another slave owning tyrant (francis scott key), hence black people now have their own anthem. There is almost nothing that isn't touched by race in that white settler entity.

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:51

Lndnmummy · 05/09/2024 22:04

Thank you for having the strength 🙏

This poster is just spamming by chucking questions into ChatGPT, there is no strength, thought nor feeling behind their posts.

The fact that white women can be horribly racist doesn’t alter the fact that this poster is wrong to say that racial violence in the US was primarily driven by white women, it was not.

Anyway they are enjoying having a bunch of women argue with each other, they are certainly not your ally.

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Och I know.

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:09

Actually @Lndnmummy you are right in saying there are a few who are rallying against white privilege (see above), the rest are merely misappropriating the term Karen.

I'm only interested in history, and to know where the term Karen comes from you have to know what cultivated it; A race based entity is what cultivated it.

Take a look at the state sponsored ethnic cleansing in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism

Settler colonialism - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism

Lndnmummy · 05/09/2024 23:12

SnakesAndArrows · 05/09/2024 22:26

My friend Karen, she’s a racist is she?

Quite possibly

Custardandrhubarbcrumble · 05/09/2024 23:13

Totally agree that it is now used to describe any woman who dares complain about anything.

My teen kids and husband drive me mad because they absolutely won't complain about anything and get really embarrassed when I do. Eg my vegetarian daughter being brought a ham omelette, not being brought the bill 15 mins after asking for it, being given a warm flat coca cola. In all this situations I wasn't being rude or shouting at anyone, I was simply pointing out an error or asking for better service. But all of them would rather put up with shit service/paying for something they didn't order etc rather than be seen as a 'Karen'. Bloody ridiculous. If I am paying for something I want what I paid for and that is not unreasonable.

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 23:14

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:09

Actually @Lndnmummy you are right in saying there are a few who are rallying against white privilege (see above), the rest are merely misappropriating the term Karen.

I'm only interested in history, and to know where the term Karen comes from you have to know what cultivated it; A race based entity is what cultivated it.

Take a look at the state sponsored ethnic cleansing in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism

That’s got nothing to do with it being used as a misogynist slur in the UK though has it?

Congrats on googling the origins, though, I guess??

Lndnmummy · 05/09/2024 23:15

Custardandrhubarbcrumble · 05/09/2024 23:13

Totally agree that it is now used to describe any woman who dares complain about anything.

My teen kids and husband drive me mad because they absolutely won't complain about anything and get really embarrassed when I do. Eg my vegetarian daughter being brought a ham omelette, not being brought the bill 15 mins after asking for it, being given a warm flat coca cola. In all this situations I wasn't being rude or shouting at anyone, I was simply pointing out an error or asking for better service. But all of them would rather put up with shit service/paying for something they didn't order etc rather than be seen as a 'Karen'. Bloody ridiculous. If I am paying for something I want what I paid for and that is not unreasonable.

Hm...

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 23:17

Lndnmummy · 05/09/2024 23:15

Hm...

What’s your problem with that? A women standing up for herself? Oh no!!

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:23

The Duchess has gone awfully quiet....

And Lizzie, the origin of the Karen (and the oppressive conditions that created the Karen) is important as you will understand its trivial misuse here (well maybe you won't understand... but plenty will).

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 23:26

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:23

The Duchess has gone awfully quiet....

And Lizzie, the origin of the Karen (and the oppressive conditions that created the Karen) is important as you will understand its trivial misuse here (well maybe you won't understand... but plenty will).

It’s not relevant to this thread though is it - the use of the word in the UK is not the same as the US - no one uses it to mean racism here, people use it to refer to a woman who has stepped out of line

Bex5490 · 05/09/2024 23:29

I feel like the phrase is pretty much dying out. Agreed it had relevance when it first came about in terms of calling out some of the dangerous behaviour of racist white women in America but now it’s used for any older woman.

In 10 years I’m sure it will be all forgotten. Except on MN of course!

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:41

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 23:26

It’s not relevant to this thread though is it - the use of the word in the UK is not the same as the US - no one uses it to mean racism here, people use it to refer to a woman who has stepped out of line

Hence trivial misuse...

As I said before, I could never get offended by a term an oppressed people coined for a people who committed unspeakable acts of cruelty.

And if a woman here (UK) steps out of line and acts an arse does it matter what she is called?

Lizzie67384 · 05/09/2024 23:46

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:41

Hence trivial misuse...

As I said before, I could never get offended by a term an oppressed people coined for a people who committed unspeakable acts of cruelty.

And if a woman here (UK) steps out of line and acts an arse does it matter what she is called?

Of course it does! Karen in the UK is used as a socially accepted way of saying bitch - so you complain in a restaurant and you’re happy for the waiter to call you a bitch?

herecomesautumn · 05/09/2024 23:51

Eldrick47s · 05/09/2024 23:23

The Duchess has gone awfully quiet....

And Lizzie, the origin of the Karen (and the oppressive conditions that created the Karen) is important as you will understand its trivial misuse here (well maybe you won't understand... but plenty will).

She's probably dozed off. I don't blame her.

Tedious

Yazzi · 06/09/2024 03:52

theduchessofspork · 05/09/2024 13:38

Behaving like a racist arsehole doesn’t need a gendered insult.

There is no equivalent for a racist man.

Actually it does, because specifically feminine racism is a particularly insidious form widely known and experienced in BAME communities, and denied or minimised outside of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/how-white-women-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability

How white women use strategic tears to silence women of colour | Ruby Hamad

The legitimate grievances of brown and black women are no match for the accusations of a white damsel in distress

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/how-white-women-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability

Userxyd · 06/09/2024 06:10

@Eldrick47s

And if a woman here (UK) steps out of line and acts an arse does it matter what she is called?

"Steps out of line"?? Eww. No thanks.
Karen is totally misogynistic and I'm amazed at women who don't see this. So depressing when women fail to support each other - we get enough crap from the men in the world (and kids!) so need to stand up for each other when we can.

HRTQueen · 06/09/2024 06:35

Yes Karen can be and is used as a misogynist term

but is is also used as a term to call out particular racist behaviour (in the uk too)

the first of course isn’t ok to use

the later well the issue is a particular type of racist behaviour not the word used to describe this and it’s for those who have to deal with this to decide how it’s called out /what language is used

Swipe left for the next trending thread