"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

???

But why would you chose to use a word that is a) a female’s name and b) likely to be an older female’s name - do you not think that by using ‘Karen’ you are implying that an older woman is not entitled to complain or be assertive?

If you use ‘wanker’ to describe a man, it doesn’t match the criteria above

Yes, but there’s always a chance of men getting aggressive so no one is willing to ‘joke’ about their rudeness. We all know a man being angry about something is a worry and needs to be approached with caution (even if it’s unlikely to escalate to a severe point). A woman complaining is seen as both unwomanly because we shouldn’t make a fuss, and a joke because the likelihood that there would be severe consequences is far more unlikely. So obviously we deserve to be mocked, women should just be kind shouldn’t we. Even if the service provided is genuinely shit.

You have literally just proved the point that was made back in the first few posts of this thread by @Jellycats4life :

"I loath it. It means bitch. Substitute any use of “Karen” with “bitch” and the meaning is always the same."

Oh absolutely agree!!

Exactly. IME I've seen just as many women behave in a manner which would be described as mansplaining. It doesn't mean my experience is representative of the full picture anymore than PP who say they've never observed a women behave this way (which is probably not true).

Derogatory terms exist for both genders. Women feel the brunt of it more than men no doubt. But really the thread is a bit pointless tbf. Someone observes man being rude to women, MN pile on how terrible men are.

If it bothers OP so much, why not challenge the young man on his behaviour? How else are you going to change things? Nope. Run along to the tinternet and start a man bashing thread instead.

Most mysoginists don't have a problem with describing a woman as a Karen.

Mansplaining has been overused now I think, and the meaning basically lost. Manspreading it absolutely a thing and should be called out every time, but it isn't the same as calling someone a bitch. These are just not equivalent terms.

Being rude is different to complaining or assertive. Any idiot knows that. Or should do.

And you have never seen men do the same thing?

I’ve worked in a pub, shop and as a waitress. Men can be a nightmare eg insisting for the third time that I check the warehouse personally for an item. This because they decide to shop on Xmas Eve for the gift for the wife! Men insisting that on my second time at the pub I recognise theirs out of 80 tankards. Men who insisted on ordering food on the middle of the drinks order when my male boss insisted that everything was added up in my head and there were 2 separate bills for drinks and food. What about the man who collared me behind the burger fryer to wipe the flour of his apron or the male boss who would not allow me to use gloves to clean the male urinals at McDonalds some 30 years ago. What about the man who screamed at me when. I told him that I could not pour him a pints as my manager allowed us to run out of beer glasses on New Year’s Eve.

What about the male client who insisted I fed his meter when I was a qualified professional person and it’s not my job. What about the male boss who asked me to pour the tea when there were junior male staff available.

Men are so reasonable and undemanding - silly me to have not noticed!

You could say that about every post on mumsnet though? Why not just approach the person/situation instead of posting on mumsnet??

I normally get a bit sick of all the "isms" and "phobias"- I mean, I'm basically fascist, far right etc according to current leftist lore

However, hypocrisy really gets my goat and "karen" is a white, working/lower middle class (no further education), middle aged woman and no fucker calls it out because those isms are acceptable

Of course I have. What a ridiculous question. Men can be a nightmare, women can be a nightmare. I’ve never said or implied anything different.

Someone observes man being rude to women, MN pile on how terrible men are.

Its almost like men have treated women like lesser humans for a millennia and this is a female based forum which often have discussions about how men still have this view.

If it bothers OP so much, why not challenge the young man on his behaviour?

Because of consequences. Challenging men is exactly how women get labelled as Karens (and sadly that’s the least worst consequence possible). Women speaking out is exactly what causes terms like Karen to be thrown about, it’s a catch 22 situation. Whilst men and women continue to deny it’s used to shut women up, it’s only going to be a vicious cycle rather than ‘things changing’. This whole thread is challenging Karen as a term and people are still defending it.

So let’s call those nightmare men

Kevinettas.

Oh they do. I’ve heard of “Kev” interchangeable with “chav” particularly “Kev car” one of those noisy souped up hatchbacks.

Slight more niche, a “Cyril” is a semi hard-on, shaped like Cyril Sneer’s nose.

Cyril as a Karen equivalent is a new low 😂

No they don’t - I’ve just googled ‘Kev’ and nothing like you’re describing comes up - if you google ‘Karen’, immediately lots of posts come up.

I googled Kev car and all I got was a man called Kev who runs a taxi business.

It isn't a meme.

Neither "kev" nor "chav" (which are classist insults - surely nobody still thinks "chav" is ok?) has the same meaning as "Karen".

Yep. Bullies go for the easy target.

It's a very ageist and misogynistic way of referring to women meaning they are being annoying. This poor lass, though, I hope she dumps him soon, as this can't be the only problematic behaviour of his!

The men are Kens I've been told.

Imagine being a man called Nigel.

But why wouldn’t you just say ‘wow she’s rude’? Why would you deliberately choose to use the word ‘Karen’??