Refugees "visiting home"

[Notanotherkendoll]

I'm not sure how I feel after this conversation with a friend so would like to hear other opinions.
My friend took in a Ukrainian refugee back in 2022, she was a 18/19 year old teenager. She didn't stay for long before getting employment/started studying and was able to move out but they have remained in touch and my friend sort of views herself as the girls "uk mum".
Anyway friend is once again beside herself as she has gone back to Kyiv for a few days. This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed. She is going to visit her family who all moved to Kyiv, as the only girl her family pushed her to flee when the war started but her mum stayed put.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back? I thought the whole point of being a refugee was that your own country wasn't safe, if you are going back to visit how can that be the case?

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

I think this is complicated and oversimplified by some. As a PP noted, people coming to the UK from Ukraine are not refugees in the legal sense - they can live, work and study for extended periods and move around freely - including visiting home if they wish and at their risk.

Legal refugees are granted protection as they face persecution, violence or worse at home. For them to return home freely raises the issue of undermining their real need for protection. I think it’s fair to consider this.

That all said, the human need to reconnect and belong must be utterly overwhelming and I can completely understand people taking risks to see their loved ones. Less so to nip for a hair cut.

I knew a woman who was a refugee from Ukraine and came with her son who was 7. They stayed with a family close to me for a couple of years and became quite involved in the local community. I met the woman many times - prior to coming to the UK she had lived in a few other countries and her English was excellent which helped her settle in much better and more quickly than other Ukranian refugees who came to nearby towns. She said that she viewed coming to the UK as a big adventure for her and her son. Whilst in the UK, she went back to Ukraine many times on holiday. Her town was largely unaffected by the war (in terms of devestation im sure it was still frightening) - she spoke of what I imagine to be like air raid drills and sometimes they would hear the rockets but her town was not under seige and no buildings or homes were affected. The woman was an artist and tried to persue selling her art in the UK but didnt seem to be very successful. She lived on benefits although had met some weathly elderly people in the town who were helping to support her and eventually she was allocated a council house. The council house was not in the town where she first came but still in the county. I don't think she could drive or if she could, she didn't have a car and buses are not the best in my area so i think she lost touch with some of the people who had been funding her. She became quite bitter about this and after attempts to get moved through the council failed, she moved back to Ukraine. I cant understand how difficult it must have been to come here in the first place and start a new life and then to have to do the same again when the council house was in a different town, it meant her son had to change schools after settling in well to the first one and that alone i think is unfair. That being said, I find the decision to move back very strange, maybe easy for me to say having not been in her shoes but i find it hard to understand why you would knowingly take your child back to a warzone. I suppose she must feel safe enough in her small town. I hope so.

Hardly the same as Belfast is part of the uk

This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed.

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

She didn’t return home though did she? Your own post states her city is was destroyed.

So do you think the russians who use rape as a weapon as part of their genocidal invasion shouldn't be called that?

They've emptied their prisons of murderers and rapists to slaughter Ukrainians

They are rapists

Have you actually read any of the posts.

Uh? wtaf??? 100 people blown to bits yesterday in a double missile strike in central Ukraine yesterday.

No, anyone raising this isn't a far right winger, they are just heartless.

Because of the Wests stupidity, Ukraine may yet be over run by Russian forces, UA is fighting with one arm tied behind its back by Western Govt's not supplying and not allowing UA to strike military targets in Russia.

Is this the same West Ukraine that was bombed overnight?

Of course not!

My point is being missed but maybe it’s a subject for a different thread.

It's all about playing the system isn't it.

This is a really good comparison, thanks.

What is your point? Your issue seems to be that people have cited the unambiguous fact that occupying forces have used rape as a weapon of war in Ukraine, and that many Ukrainians are frightened of this.

All this confusion, lack of understanding and bewilderment. Very timely

I see a U24 donation coming on

That was to @graceinspace999 but quote feature seems to have mangled.

How the fuck she affords it is with her fucking wages.

It’s not a week at Claridges, ffs. It’s a cheap flight to Ukraine.

Daily Mail too left wing for you so you thought you’d stir things up here?

Also relevant is that both the Ukraine and the UK and other European governments don't want the Ukrainians to stay here permanently,

The war will end.

When it ends, Ukraine wants its people to come back to help rebuild the place. The U.K. and other European governments want the Ukrainians who have come to Europe for safety (mostly women and children because as mentioned men between 18-60 can't leave) to go back to Ukraine after the war.

So there is a special scheme for Ukrainians and they are not legally refugees nor do they have permanent rights to settle in the countries where they are.

After the war the expectation is that most will go home. So in many ways if they are keeping up links with family back there that is a good thing.

In general if people are displaced due to war and then the war ends they want to go home.

All of this, and if Putin wins he won't stop at Ukraine. War may come closer to home than people here imagine.

Ukrainians are the shield that guards the rest of Europe ATM. We should respect and protect them, not question their right to be here or visit home.

My neighbour just returned to a country which is actively at war with another country, she went to visit elderly relatives. She was very stressed and would only travel for this reason, had preparations for if she got stuck, and had difficulty getting insurance. Plans to evacuate if needed. People do live and work in war zones, or places that might suddenly erupt. They usually visit once the active fighting has died down or moved on, but that doesn't mean they are fully safe, or that law and order is restored or a bombing raid won't suddenly happen, and it also means that things like education (if she's studying) won't be happening in the same way, so it's better to go elsewhere, study and then return. Schools and education are disrupted, partly because so many people have fled.

I also have friends who are from a place where war broke out last year and some of their relatives were shot. They will still visit in a year or two.

If you come from somewhere, you navigate the risk in a way that is not imaginable if you are not from it.

This thread really is one of the worst I have ever read on MN. Respect to those of you who have had the stomach to refute some of the heartless crap posted.

What is she then?

This first post has nailed it ^^

She is a migrant here on a temporary visa. If you google you will find details of the scheme put in place for Ukranians.

A Ukrainian with leave to remain under one of the special schemes for Ukrainians. Likely the Homes for Ukraine or family members scheme. These are both legally different from refugee status, which is not an accident.

Good idea!

People who live in war zones are also not always living in places with ground combat on a daily basis. They have to leave their homes to get water, food, attend work, go on transport, work in hospitals and so on. If the fighting gets too near or too intense, they stay home, but everyone can't stockpile enough water etc and power may go on and off. Why do you think people die when they are working in hospitals in Gaza- because they showed up for work! People on here have a very strange idea that an entire country would grind to a halt and everyone stay indoors- remember Covid, when we needed people to work in essential services, otherwise things like sewage, rubbish, medicine, food delivery, cannot occur- and this is risky for those people, but they take that risk as they need money to live off from their wages and they need to feed themselves and their children.

Some places seem safe, then they get bombed, that's why the people are there, they didn't know that in advance...