Refugees "visiting home"

[Notanotherkendoll]

I'm not sure how I feel after this conversation with a friend so would like to hear other opinions.
My friend took in a Ukrainian refugee back in 2022, she was a 18/19 year old teenager. She didn't stay for long before getting employment/started studying and was able to move out but they have remained in touch and my friend sort of views herself as the girls "uk mum".
Anyway friend is once again beside herself as she has gone back to Kyiv for a few days. This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed. She is going to visit her family who all moved to Kyiv, as the only girl her family pushed her to flee when the war started but her mum stayed put.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back? I thought the whole point of being a refugee was that your own country wasn't safe, if you are going back to visit how can that be the case?

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

What a mean minded thread OP.

Not going to continue this conversation with you past this point.

She is a refugee. This has nothing to do with legal status. It's a simple fact as she is fleeing a war. All people all over the world who are fleeing wars are called refugees. Again, this has nothing to do with bit of paper from the British Government. Words mean things. Someone who is fleeing a war is called a refugee.

broccolienthusiast · Today 12:37
Ye, super safe out there.
I don’t know if some of you are plain stupid or just ignorant but jfc”

Wilfully ignorant in many cases, I suspect.

If she came via a legal route, never claimed benefits and has now moved out of your friends home and is studying and supporting herself, what’s the problem? She’s not a refugee, she’s a legal migrant, surely.

I think the Homes for Ukraine scheme was an excellent idea - it really called the bluff of the ‘all refugees welcome’ lot. If anyone says ‘all refugees welcome’ but didn’t take in someone on that scheme, then I think they need to take a really long hard look at themselves. I think all migration should be managed via schemes like that, so consenting people with the necessary means can support the majority of the refugees needs, rather than councils bearing the brunt - which inevitably takes resources away from the most vulnerable in society.

For anyone reading, this sort of drivel is why it's a good idea not to double down in internet arguments on subjects you know nothing about. Let @timenowplease serve as a salutary example! Sometimes it really is ok just t take the lesson, look a few things up and stop talking before you really embarrass yourself.

There is no argument in your post - just a insult- how clever you are…

That's because the poster is just making stuff up - their story isn't true.

Yeah. I observe some stepping into, or wilfully trying to stay just outside, sea-lioning territory here.

I like your idea; have refugees sponsored by someone who homes/feeds etc them until they are independent. It would allow the "refugees welcome" types to put their money where their mouth is, as I expect they mean "refugees welcome provided I'm not paying in any way"!
This is how Jewish refugees came to the UK just prior to WW2 in many cases. It'd take the pressure of Councils to find housing etc for them. The Ukraine scheme was a good model to use as it also helped integrate people as they'd live with someone already a citizen.

Assuming you're ok with the idea that people who aren't rich shouldn't have a say in how the government spends their tax money, let's get a bit more granular here. What do you think happens when any of these placements break down, or when they're exploited as they sometimes have been by sponsors under the Homes for Ukraine scheme? There really have been some quite significant safeguarding issues with that scheme, and it certainly hasn't prevented local authority involvement from being needed.

Given the fact that 6 million Jewish people died in the Holocaust, do you think this is a good example of a refugee scheme working well?

The UK took a tiny proportion of Jewish people. We even insisted tiny children be separated from their parents, who were left to die. IMO we should be ashamed of that, not aiming to replicate it.

People’s ability to flee war and persecution should not be dependent on the goodwill of individual wealthy benefactors.

The Ukraine scheme was badly thought through and unsafe. It was also unusual in that all those needing to be housed were women and children, so in any case it’s not a model that would work in most scenarios.

I'm a Ukrainian living in the UK (married to a local guy so not a refugee). This summer was the first time I went to Kyiv to see my family since 2022. During the time I was there, about three weeks, there were regular powercuts (up to 10 hours at a time), airstrike alerts several times a day, some followed by explosions. My parents are old and not very mobile, so they couldn't and didn't want to leave when the war started. Yes, lots of people are still in Ukraine, life goes on but there's absolutely no way I could say it's safe there. (Now every time I hear a car or a bike accelerate outside, I jump up cos it sounds a lot like an airstrike alert. Imagine living like this every day of your life for 2.5 years)

This😞

Tell that to the people killed in Lviv this morning.

Ukraine conscripted men so the people needing refuge were women and children. That’s the difference. If refugees are mostly women and children they are treated far, far better by the government — add them being white on top and you get joker situations like this.

Bear in mind that many for refugees who come from Afghanistan or Iraq or Africa there are NO legal routes to even apply for refugee status to the UK.

It has to be the nearest non-European safe country who don’t offer the same support or security - usually Turkey or Egypt. It’s resulted in people seeking asylum for being gay / political dissidents being hunted down by their countries and murdered with officials not even batting an eyelash

Don't even start me on it - I fell out with my ds over it. He befriended some Ukrainians at uni and he believes every word they say. For the past 2 years they have been living here most of the year, having tried Poland first, then Germany, and then the UK. And every summer they drive (!!!!!) to Odessa and back, because apparently they want proper food and proper looking after, food in the UK is 'disgusting', because manicures and hairdressing in the UK is 'disgusting' and because our medicine is 'third world'. But this year it was truly - astounding - they invited my ds to join them (I did not let him go and he is not on speakers with me now) because - listen to this - he (my ds) can easily buy an international driving license there and use it in the UK like they do - they said, worry not, we all bought our licenses, so it won't be a problem. (My ds did not pass his test and shared this information).

They way we are legally (legally) abused is unbelievable. I posted before about my ex SIL (Bulgarian) who cost the UK taxpayer I don't know how much with her extended family (all sponging off was legal, no fake IDs or anything).

He befriended them at uni? So they’re students?

Yes, and a very competitive course it is, law (and they were accepted without sitting LSAT). But apart from these Ukrainians, some Russians spawned as well, coming in their G-wagon monsters with Crimean number plates!!!!! They don't go back for hols admittedly, but why on earth were those Russians from Crimea allowed in when this shit started in Ukraine?

As I said, we are being taken the piss out of.

Can I just clarify I have no bad feeling towards this girl.
She is lovely and very much not what I expected (I had a lot of preconceived stereotypes and she hasn't been any of them).
She gets no tax payer money, her university has a Sanctuary Scholarship she was able to receive. Which has full fee waiver, full uni accommodation and a living costs bursary - she tops this up by working.
This was purely about the travelling home not about her being here in the first place.

I’m part of the “Refugees welcome” lot. I took in three Ukrainians, because we had space. I’d still think they were welcome in the UK even if I didn’t have space, we were just fortunate that we did. I also hope if we were ever invaded, that somebody in a safe country would put a roof over my children’s heads and take care of them. And I hope they’d be at the front of the queue for safety, ahead of the “Fuck Refugees” lot.

But apart from these Ukrainians, some Russians spawned as well, coming in their G-wagon monsters with Crimean number plates!!!!!

What did the Russians spawn? I don't understand this sentence. Also, if they are Russians from Crimea how did they come in under the Ukrainian scheme?

I am not understanding what the issue is with any of these people you’re talking about - Ukrainian or Russian or whatever - being here as students. In what way is that taking the piss out of you?

People come from all over the world to study here. So what?

Spawned is modern slang for appear out of nowhere. It is a non-reflexive verb. How did they come under the Ukrainian scheme? How the f should I know, but they did.

I can't say the young girl I wrote this post about holds any of these views.
She has been nothing but grateful from what I can tell. She has however gone back to Ukraine when she needed dental work, she said it was easier to receive treatment there.

Gosh, I did not explain properly. They came here as 'Ukrainian refugees', did not sit LSAT, because of their circumstances and were given places to read law, at the expense of the taxpayer (they don't pay) and among them, there are some Russians from Crimea, to be taught at the taxpayers' expense, without sitting LSATs. They were given preferential treatment compared to the native applicants. Honestly, you are like my ds!!!!! He too, did not understand that not sitting LSATs and not paying for the degree and going back for holidays was a bit too much, don't you think (not even mentioning law students thinking it is OK to buy a driving license).