Passport countersignaturies AIBU to think it's a ridiculous system

[cadburyegg]

I'm trying to get a new passport, I lost my old one so need a countersignatory.

I asked my friend who is a GP to do it. I've known her for 20 years so i don't know her professionally. She agreed but the system couldn't recognise her details and she thinks it might be because she got married and her passport is in her maiden name. She tried to put her old name in but that didn't work. So she said to ask her dad, who I do know, who is a retired solicitor. The system couldn't recognise him either - he called them and they suggested trying his old address as he moved a few years ago. But that didn't work either.

I do have a couple of other people I can ask but it sounds like they need to have a current passport, be in a recognised profession obvs, not changed their name in the last 10 years and not moved in that time?? AIBU to think this is utterly ridiculous??

In Ireland you can get the police to countersign your Irish passport.

Getting a UK passport in Ireland I get local Irish people (usually a lawyer friend) to sign it, there has never been any hassle. So move abroad and apply for a passport from there!

Nope.
Changed my name upon marriage. Kept passport in maiden name as it had almost 9 years left on it. Driving licence in new name.
Caused absolutely zero problems and saved me 80 quid.
Less 'shit at admin' and more 'very efficient' in my eyes. 😊

Yes I agree that it is a ridiculous system! Especially if you don’t know anyone that works in a profession.

However, what made your friend think they would accept a passport in her maiden name when she’s been married years. Once you change your name you need to update your passport or you cannot countersign.Also, I believe it does state somewhere on the list of acceptable professions that it has to be someone that is currently working in a particular profession and must not have retired.

What about if there comes a time when you need to provide it as ID, but its not valid because its not your name?

Apparently you can't say this, people will jump on you saying it's not true and they can keep their maiden name as long as they want on their passport because it doesn't matter that in reality its now not their name.

Well if they’re not professionals and are not required to sign someone else’s passport then they really don’t qualify to be commenting saying it’s never been an issue for them.

Exactly.

Do you sign other people’s passports when they apply for them?

I have done although the last time was on paper rather than through the online system. I included my passport number which presumably helped. And I did wonder whether there would be an issue as I forgot and signed my new name but just put née maiden name. And it worked fine.

By people do you mean the passport office who say

"If you hold a valid passport and don’t want to replace it with one showing your new
name, you can continue to use your current passport and take your marriage or civil
partnership certificate with you when you travel. However, some countries may insist
that the details on your travel documents match those in your passport. HM Passport
Office advises you to check with the consulate of the country you will be travelling to before booking your holiday"

Do you think they might be wrong?

If it makes you feel better, on my recent renewal they issued the passport with the wrong date of birth.

It was right on the form
They had my old passport
My birth certificate
My marriage certificate
The counter-signatory

Still wrong by six months.

Took them 5 months to fix it, and cost me a fortune in resending paper forms and documents

Wheres the part where they mention using your passport as ID for something in life but it's not valid because its not your correct name? You know, like what I said. I said nothing about not being allowed to travel.

What about the part where it says you'll have issues being a signatory for someone's passport, you know like what this post is actually all about?

And by people I meant people, otherwise I would have said passport office.

There is legally no reason to change your passport until it expires, I needed a new passport with my maiden name to travel on honeymoon. I've not updated it at the cost of a full new passport.

Great, happy that works for you. It wouldnt for me because i sign passports for people which is what this post is all about.

What a nightmare! In situations like that, there doesn't seem to be appropriate recourse, just a "computer says no".
One of my colleagues has a birth date of 29 February. Leap year baby. Causes her no end of hassle.

No it specifically states that the person who countersigns "must work in or be retired from a recognised profession", so being retired is fine

Just in case anyone is in this situation, before it expired, I used an old named passport combined with a marriage certificate for all sorts of things. It works for everything apart from DBS, iirc. DBS I used a convoluted pile of bills, birth certificate and marriage certificate. Several workplaces, council and gvt. were all happy with this combination.

Which is silly really, I'd imagine an expired passport with a recognisable picture is probably better proof than a bill that could have been fished from a bin, but such is life.

But people are providing examples of where they have been able to be a countersignatory despite being in those circumstances, ie. passport in maiden name but changed elsewhere.
And that cannot be the reason for rejecting the OPs friend's dad which may or may not have had something to do with addresses.
So it seems like something has gone wrong with the system which I can imagine is incredibly frustrating for the OP if there are no clear reasons given for the rejection and those are simply the reasons assumed. It also, to my mind, wouldn't fill me with hope that it wouldn't fail for the next person asked even if all their documents were in the same name and they hadn't moved home and were in appropriate professions.

I don't think it's the name thing - my passport is still in my maiden name (I'll update it when I renew - not paying to do so before that) and have countersigned them just fine - just put my maiden name in when giving my details.

it sounds like they need to have a current passport, be in a recognised profession obvs, not changed their name in the last 10 years and not moved in that time?? AIBU to think this is utterly ridiculous??

Yes, YABU

The 2 people you mention in the OP haven't got their own stuff up to date, that's not the 'system', it's them that are the problem.

Profession doesn’t matter. Professional email address does. My job is not on that list in any capacity, but I work for a globally recognised company and so it seems my email address is fine as I’ve signed a few. They basically want to ascertain whether you’re likely to be in deep shit at work if you get involved with fraudulent passports, I think.

I'm in a "recognised profession" but can't countersign as I don't have an in-date passport 🤦🏻‍♀️

Why shouldnt they travel in their maiden name and book tickets in their maiden name?

When they use their passport as ID for something else, its fine in the maiden name too, it just has to match what you are completing the ID for, such as a DBS, dont fill it out in a name of Jones if that is not the name on your passport which is Smith

Its obvious isnt it?

But people are providing examples of where they have been able to be a countersignatory despite being in those circumstances, ie. passport in maiden name but changed elsewhere.
And that cannot be the reason for rejecting the OPs friend's dad which may or may not have had something to do with addresses.
So it seems like something has gone wrong with the system which I can imagine is incredibly frustrating for the OP if there are no clear reasons given for the rejection and those are simply the reasons assumed. It also, to my mind, wouldn't fill me with hope that it wouldn't fail for the next person asked even if all their documents were in the same name and they hadn't moved home and were in appropriate professions.

That's exactly it.

The system just doesn't give a reason for why their details aren't recognised or accepted. Not only that but when my friend's dad called them they just suggested trying his old address as that "might be the problem" - so the staff can't even tell for sure what the problem is either.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe both of their passports expire in the next 3 months, but if that is the case I would have thought they would have noticed that themselves. And the system should notify them that that is what the problem is if so. It's just "computer says no"

I have put in another friend's details now but you're right, it doesn't give me a lot of hope that the system will work for her either 🤷‍♀️