To think this is a surefire way to insist that everyone comes back into the office?

[Pleasebeafleabite]

Latest BBC News link today. If I was an employer and I was forced into giving staff compulsory four day weeks based on compressed hours, I’m be making sure they were doing them in the office.

Yet more unintended consequences

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gl5w83z7do

Nah he is still doing childcare in working hours

His employee has no issues with him collecting dc on his lunch break or him talking to his dc on his lunch break. Why would you think it’s an issue? And as I said I’m home before his hour is up but he doesn’t rush back to the office because he’s still on lunch.. oh and lunch is unpaid, like mine is.

if he was in the office you would have to pay for childcare I presume you do in the summer holidays and half term? Or does he just let them play in garden when he works?

Im TTO & as I said p/t. We do still pay for some childcare eg they did a week of tennis school & a week of activity club at school this summer. We are fortunate that money isn’t an issue & isn’t a motivator for us. I don’t work Fridays but both dc do clubs after school that day because they want too.

Maybe there might be other reasons for that….. like a once in a century event impacting everyone’s lives and mental health.

If I worked in customer service I would be worried about frontline staff dealing with more volatile and stressed customers from that period on.

It's allegedly true in your limited experience. I WFH and have to do a certain number of chargeable hours a day. I don't get to be a slacker, else I'd be on a disciplinary!

This!

It's interesting that you're still not mentioning either the premises available or what happens if your staff vote with their feet. And you're not just talking about where you work now, you framed the thread in general terms. So even if your own organisation could pull this off, lots couldn't.

There are a surprising number of people who don't understand that while an employer can prevent an employee from working remotely, this isn't the same thing as being able to get the work done in person.

Many nurses already work what would be called ‘compressed hours’ because they work long shifts. My friend is a FT nurse and does 3 long shifts and one short one (so only working on 4 days of the week).

Quite a few of the roles you mention are already doing the compressed hours model!

Weird conclusion from OP here.

My DH works compressed hours over 4 days and goes into the office for 2 days, WFH 2 days. The 2 office days are shorter to allow time for commuting. The 2 WFH days are very long as he can go straight from showering to working and can work solidly till dinner is ready.

If you hire conscientious, capable people who want to do their jobs and are good at doing them, there is no problem with WFH. If your people are unmotivated and will exploit any opportunity to skive off work then it's not the WFH that is to blame but an employer failing to make jobs meaningful enough that people are willing to do them.

No shit

DHs bonus is impacted by billing so he definitely can’t slack and tbh he often works more hours than he claims on overtime.

I think some people have a very new view of what jobs are out there and how things work.

If you're a manager then it's your job to make sure the work of your staff isn't 'in their heads' but that it achieves the requirements of their post. If it does and the role isn't needed at set hours or locations, it doesn't matter where they do it or when. If it does not you need to performance manage them on a case by case basis. Undoubtedly some people may improve within the structured work environment, with you there to support and mentor and generally keep an eye on them. Others will be underperforming for different reasons. Others still will be doing just fine. Its hard work as a manager to performance manage appropriately and individually, but if you want improvements that's what you need to do. A sledge hammer punative approach of removing WFH for all is the lazy way that will lose you a lot of good will, and won't address incompetence within your team.

I work where people do 4 days and 3 days off. We produce something so can't wfh. It's brilliant. 3 days off means q day is spent doing household tasks, or visiting Dr's, dentists, hair etc and 2 can be spent how you want. People are rarely off for appointments, or ill. I'd recommend a 4 day week to everyone.

@Pleasebeafleabite I think it's unfair to judge productivity during covid times. People were forced to WFH with young babies and children aswell as trying to home school them. It was a hard slog for many trying to juggle all that.

You should be focusing on people's productivity after covid not during. If employees are currently failing with being productive now, then yes manage that but you cannot compare productivity during covid!

So no you don’t then. 2 weeks of a club they need dropping to and from does not equate childcare. So he is technically looking after kids in the Summer holidays on work time.

If you hire conscientious, capable people who want to do their jobs and are good at doing them, there is no problem with WFH. If your people are unmotivated and will exploit any opportunity to skive off work then it's not the WFH that is to blame but an employer failing to make jobs meaningful enough that people are willing to do them.

Exactly, I don’t need to work but love my job & work hard. Like all my colleagues!

I’m not responding to everything because they’re coming thick and fast. And I have to go and actually do some work in a minute. Yes obviously having desk space/premises available is a factor. I understand this is more of a factor in the public sector

I think it’s quite obvious the OP is not an effective manager and is using their problem with WFH or compressed hours to cover their own incompetence.

I'm pretty certain that wfh has very negative consequences in my workplace. New staff cannot be trained properly and never become part of the culture. Literally amazing if you manage to get hold of anyone you need to speak to, they are usually out walking the dog or something. Productivity way down, quality of work way down.

Amazed by this. Its not like this at all where i work. Perhaps because its hybrid so all in 2 days. Everyone is required to have childcare for kids, mine are out of the house at all times during working hours, i take annual leave if one is sick. They are in after school care when I'm wfh. Wfh saves me a full days worth of hours commuting time during one week.

My company does a 40 hour week over 4 days. The younger staff with no commitments love having the extra day off at a weekend. But for those with families, it’s a logistical nightmare for childcare. We’ve had people leave as no wrap around care or childminder covers the hours needed. I’m part time & although the longer day doesn’t affect me, the shorter working week means it’s harder to make up hours if the kids are poorly. I’ve also heard from more mature members of staff who find the long days exhausting, & so spend their extra day off doing what they used to do in the evenings but are now too tired to do, so there’s no real gain. Personally I don’t like it & would happily revert back to 5 days.

That poster has said clearly that she's term time only...

But there are people looking after DC whilst working over the summer. It's a thing. The state of holiday childcare in this country is such that it couldn't be otherwise, and some employers have the wit to understand that them preferring a worker who doesn't need to do this doesn't mean that such a worker is available.

So no you don’t then. 2 weeks of a club they need dropping to and from does not equate childcare. So he is technically looking after kids in the Summer holidays on work time.

Well the activity club at the school is open from 8 am to 6 pm, why would you not class is as childcare? The tax free childcare scheme is applicable (we can’t use it) but I presume it means it counts as childcare. The tennis was 9 am - 3pm.

Im TTO, do you know what that means?

I know loads of colleagues, many of them senior grades (civil service) on a 4 day week or a 9 day fortnight and it's really helpful to them in managing childcare and balance work and life. It's what they've chosen, it doesn't affect how others work and it makes them happy in their job. Many more benefits to downsides imo.

It makes no sense.

Your top performers are wfh. If you had to let them work compressed hours, you would force them into the office. But for no actual reason other than, if they benefit from 4 days, you want to take some of the benefit of wfh from them?

Basically, you don’t want them gaining something unless they also lose something?

It’s not shirkers though, is it? It’s crap managers who don’t give their staff enough to do. If you have work to do, you get it done regardless of location. People like wfh as they don’t have enough to do, and it’s much nicer to not have enough to do at home than in the office.

"Compressing five days into four typically means people working nearly 9 hours a day. How many will realistically do those hours"

I do already! It's great. I have a 3 day weekend every week. I've done these hours for years. I work in the office though - no desire (or ability) to wfh