To think this is a surefire way to insist that everyone comes back into the office?

[Pleasebeafleabite]

Latest BBC News link today. If I was an employer and I was forced into giving staff compulsory four day weeks based on compressed hours, I’m be making sure they were doing them in the office.

Yet more unintended consequences

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gl5w83z7do

And a HUGE number do. They do school runs and pickups, homework and cooking and then you have the absolute piss takers who have children there all day so they can save on childcare.

You can’t be a very effective team manager if you are more concerned with “bums on seats completing their hours”, rather than “getting the job done from home effectively and by expected completion time”…

Compressed hours have been a thing for years particularly in the public sector & Im sure wfh still happens.

FallingisLearning agree, I am same, i work part time hours spread over a 5 day week to provide for school runs. That said, i get done in that time what many do in a full time role. It only works on a hybrid basis where i can reduce commute time.

I'd like to see normalisation of men doing the type of arrangement too. Its fantastic.

Also, being inflexible about work from home ironically means a lot of employees end up needing more formal flexible requirements in the office.

I know several part time workers this kind of inflexibility affects. Having to split their hours over more days and leave at 2pm to accommodate school pick up (if no wrap around available), whereas if WFH they could just nip out for 20 minutes and make the time up

Yes!

I'm pretty certain that wfh has very negative consequences in my workplace. New staff cannot be trained properly and never become part of the culture. Literally amazing if you manage to get hold of anyone you need to speak to, they are usually out walking the dog or something. Productivity way down, quality of work way down. Depends where you work though - where I work you can get by for a long time producing very low quality, slapdash work. Childcare cannot happen whilst you are working either. I've had people in conference calls who are hiking with their families through mountains, on the beach, etc., working from holiday destinations has been commonplace this summer. It's really ridiculous.

I think this could be concerning for many employers. When my DH started his job 19 years ago, they operated a 9-day fortnight. So long as you put in the extra hour a day most days, you could take every other Friday off. Then, people began WFT on the other Friday and would claim they were at their desks when very audibly in the hairdresser/school playground/Supermarket, or they were doing an 8-8.5day fortnight. It was withdrawn.

WFT should be of mutual benefit to employer and employee - some people are more productive when WFT, it can offer better work/life balance and lead to happier employees and fewer sick days; but development of talent/new or graduate rookies is better when in the office, relationships and informal exchange of ideas and expertise can be more organic in person and, if you are my DH, you actual welcome NOT being at home to deal with crying kids, noise from their gaming, or major rows between teenage siblings or you menopausal wife, or the spaniels barking rabidly every time a cat or postman wanders across your drive...

This isn't only about families. They keep raising the pension age, older people want flexible working too.

Basically the default worker being a man working 9-5 for 5 days a week while woman does house and kids doesn't reflect modern life. Working patterns are stuck in the 50s.

Dh wfh 1 day a week, he’s here right now and his head is never raised, he barely stops for a cuppa…maybe you have issues with how you manage your team?

So by your own admission, your 2 remote employees are the hardest workers but if you were an employer you would force these 2 employers to return to the office if they were approved to work 4 days?

Condensing hours with the WFH culture seems ideal to me. The at home days, you can save on commuting so if its 1 hour round trip that's 1 extra hour that you can add to your time working.

If an employee is not pulling their weight WFH but more productive in the office, then that should be managed with the individual and not penalise others for their downfall!

This is an excellent point.

Employers wanting something doesn't mean it's available, especially with our current skills shortage. There are times when a worker being able to do something that their boss ideally wouldn't want means greater access to that person's talents and labour overall. Having kids around a bit more in the summer holidays is another example of that.

I'm recently moved to a compressed week and it's been fantastic. My team set up supports it, everything is covered and complete and my employer benefits from keeping me for longer with this company. I have 30 plus years of valuable experience in my field, believe me, I'm worth it.

Everyone I know who takes time out of working hours to go to the gym/shops/school run things makes up the time elsewhere. I've never known anyone regularly do those things while WFH and just be sneaky about it.

And half those things aren't even an issue that affects anyone else. What's wrong with liking WFH because you can get up at 8:45 rather than 7:30? What's wrong with having a plumber round to fix the toilet or taking two minutes to receive an Amazon delivery while you're working?

And a HUGE number do. They do school runs and pickups, homework and cooking and then you have the absolute piss takers who have children there all day so they can save on childcare.

Why do you think some of these things are taking place during working hours? Loads of people start work at 9/9:30 so a school run is often before that. DH collects dc when he’s wfh but he just takes a late lunch & uses 15 mins on that, he might do some cooking the remaining time.

Great point.

Another important group to mention is people who've stopped working or reduced their hours due to ill health or caring. There's been an increase in this group. If they're to come back into the workplace, it's going to have to involve flexibility.

Most people who love hybrid working love it because they can wake up late, do the school run, receive Amazon deliveries

How many Amazon deliveries are they getting?! It takes me longer to collect an Amazon package from the reception at work then it would at my home.

And who looks after the kids when he has taken time to go collect them?

I said that I could see employers wanting people back more. It wouldn’t apply to people on remote contracts anyway, at least at our place

Everyone I know who takes time out of working hours to go to the gym/shops/school run things makes up the time elsewhere. I've never known anyone regularly do those things while WFH and just be sneaky about it.

And half those things aren't even an issue that affects anyone else. What's wrong with liking WFH because you can get up at 8:45 rather than 7:30? What's wrong with having a plumber round to fix the toilet or taking two minutes to receive an Amazon delivery while you're working?

Totally agree

Also an MN world, every issue can just be performance managed, which in real life is stressful for all and very time-consuming for a manager. So much so that individuals have to be seriously under performing before it’s a worthwhile endeavour.

Erm… it’s part of your job, the clues in the title MANAGER!!

If you don’t want these responsibilities don’t be a manager FFS!

My job can’t be done from home, so I don’t have direct experience.

But of the five people I know who work from home, only one works for a company that can still accommodate having the full staff office based at the same time. Two increased staff numbers, but didn’t increase office space. The other two moved to smaller premises/reduced the amount of space they rent to save money. From my admittedly very small sample size, many employers seem really happy with a from home/in office mix.

Ummm don't lots of employers already do compressed hours?

I'm a teacher. I do 0.8 over 3 days (basically I have no frees and a shirt lunch break, and do my planning/marking etc at home). I've been doing that since precovid. I got the ideabecause there was a teacher at my first school that did it - that was over a decade ago.

Some GP practices do evening appointments now - I had assumed that was how they staffed them?

Flexible working is a way of encouraging staff retention/recruitment. Sure, it doesn't work for all businesses and I can't see any way that the government would make it mandatory as there are some customer facing roles where it wouldn't work.

The whole point of management is to manage staff. If someone doesn't do their work... well fundamentally they can either be nudged/trained into doing it or you let them go and get someone else. Some people do take the piss with WFH. Some people take the piss in the office. A good employer measures and judges what is best for getting the job done.

But that just means harder faster workers end up doing more work because they're taking work from others after finishing their own?

In my job we work on projects and if I finish what I need to do for the day at 4pm then there's no problem with me finishing then, because guaranteed another day I'll be working until 6 to get something finished.

You can't generalise and insist that just because something works for your workplace it works everywhere and therefore nobody should be allowed to WFH or do compressed hours!

I've been freelance for close to 20 years and worked mostly at home. I get more done without distractions such as having to take part in small talk or wait to use the kettle/microwave or set up a free desk or attend random meetings just because I'm in and, sure, why not because something, something. People employ me because I produce good work. I don't need to be watched to do so. When I go to meetings they are focussed on specific outcomes.

Are your staff doing their job? If not, why not? Do you need standing over to complete tasks or are you capable of managing your time and tasks like a responsible adult? If so, why do you assume others are incapable of doing so? If your experience is that your team need micro-managing that says something about your staffing choices and the culture of your workplace. Something, as a team manager, that is your responsibility to reflect on.

Yep. My SiL is personal assistant to a consultant and her normal working hours are 8.30am-6pm monday to Friday.