To think this is a surefire way to insist that everyone comes back into the office?

[Pleasebeafleabite]

Latest BBC News link today. If I was an employer and I was forced into giving staff compulsory four day weeks based on compressed hours, I’m be making sure they were doing them in the office.

Yet more unintended consequences

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gl5w83z7do

Ridiculous carry on!

But when your staff had their kids home during the pandemic would your business have survived without them?

I just think it’s a bit of a weird position to take that you were happy for them to work from
home with their kids during the pandemic because you needed them and the survival of your business relied upon it.

But now that your staff might need a bit of
support from you you won’t allow it and you will sack them.

You would do well to remember what your staff did for you to get your business through the pandemic.

@MamaDollyorJesus unfortunately doctors and dentist appointment times are often out of people’s control due to lack of availability. If I need a doctors appointment I take when I’m given or I won’t be getting one at all. Also side note, many medical appointments for pre existing conditions that need regular monitoring the appointment letters are sent out with the dates on, it’s not like you can negotiate with the medical secretaries when your appointments are, or not in my experience anyway! Hair and other appointments this obviously doesn’t apply! When I get medical appointments on my working days I’ll often start earlier and work later to get the hours done or work extra another day. It’s all about give and take, and I find when staff feel lucky to have an accommodating employer they work harder

Some PP are claiming childcare is so expensive they 'have no choice'. Yeah - right again. We could all use that excuse and save ourselves a fortune by effectively doing two jobs neither of them very well but who cares - childcare is just too expensive...

What about roles where you dont have the option to wfh and save all that money and time? Doctors, supermarket staff, cleaners, plumbers.

Anyway, tell us what should happen if the worker can't find a childminder or holiday care, meaning the employer doesn't have the option of the worker not being in this position in the first place.

But surely a basic requirement has always been that when a parent applies for a job they have already identified suitable childcare?
In all the interviews I've had over the years I've NEVER been asked my childcare arrangements because interviewers are not allowed to assess me on that. But when I accept the job I am able to turn up for work all year round without my children in tow.

This. Most have policies.

A one off emergency is one thing, but they must have childcare in place.

It doesn't work. I called a customer service line the other day and found myself talking to a women who was quite clearly (I could hear) being interrupted by her child while she was on the call to me. Because of that I had to repeat everything she asked me for, 2-3 times because she couldn't concentrate. Yes, when I got another call back, I complained about it. It's not appropriate, she was unable to deal with my call and it give it the attention it required.

If you cannot find childcare/holiday cover then others need to cover for you?

YOU WILL NEVER WORK EFFECTIVELY WHILST ALSO LOOKING AFTER A CHILD.

Dont you see that you are effectively expecting others to cover for you without even asking them.

So what happened me was this: Partner died, he was doing the childcare as he worked part time.

My employer gave me 6 months off full pay (private company btw) after that, management allowed me to go on a flexi time informal contract where i would fit work in around school times, in return, i'd work the extra hours in the evenings, weekends, bank holidays & cover sickness on my days off (i had in laws who would help me out with this)

I'd have walked over hot coals for that employer, you'd have had me sacked "or let me go" in your management speak.

@ClowningAround21

That's a completely different scenario and you know it.

You were already employed and a proven employee. Your employer, quite rightly, made a huge effort in extraordinary circumstances to allow to continue your employment.

And many would.

But would they take you on with that working pattern as an unproven resource, no, highly unlikely. Be sensible.

I'm a teacher. Give me the right to work a compressed week with longer days... and then what? Would school days suddenly become longer? And if they did, would that not just mean even longer days for kids, even worse conditions for colleagues who choose to work 5 days instead, but timetabling is a nightmare, so they'd end up with insane hours and lots of trapped time? Or would I suddemly end up with an unfairly light timetable?

It's unworkable for jobs like this, and I'm sure there are more out there. You cannot mandate that every employer has to do this.

So you reported her without knowing if it was a one off emergency, which you just said was acceptable.

I recently pphoned an energy company, the man had a barking dog in the back ground, is that ok?

Everyone was home during the pandemic which meant usually spouses could look after kids. Where that wasn’t available I did suck it up because it was out of their hands, did I get productivity from those people? No, how could I expect it when they were looking after their kids in the middle of a pandemic when there actually was NO option of childcare for those without a partner. They got paid regardless, it wasn’t their fault. Did my business suffer? Yes. Did I nearly go under? Yes. Did I furlough anyone? No. I used savings to try keep things going.
But I will be damned if I employ someone now who cannot work effectively or efficiently because they have to look after small children.

I’m just fed up with government overreach. Let businesses work out what their business needs are, advertise for a role and appoint applicants willing to fulfil the demands of the role advertised. Too much regulation stifled businesses and makes employee anxious about taking the risk of employing someone, incase they assert rights that don’t fit with the business needs or culture. The impact is reduced employment opportunities.

*employers

Being cynical and self-righteous is an ugly quality and rest assured with you an attitude like yours, you will not be getting the best out of your team.

If your staff turnover is low, that will purely be down to the economy.

They do if the interviewee's truthful about expecting this, but realistically they're far more likely to claim that of course they have childcare fully sorted, only to start claiming once in post that the childminder's sick, that grandma died, that it's "only for today" and all the rest

Fortunately probation's still a thing - though some attempt to hide their real arrangements while it's running - but that doesn't alter the inconvenience of having to re-recruit because someone wasn't honest in the first place

I did. If it was a one off emergency, it won't be an issue for her, will it?

If it's a regular occurrence, it might well be.

Unless the dog is barking so loudly that the person cannot concentrate on speaking to me, then no, I don't have an issue. I would have an issue with background noise so loud the person can't concentrate/hear me/be heard.

I couldn’t make my business work like that with those hours. I would not want an employee who “fit work in” around childcare. Not many would .

Also think about where many of these cooperations are located. We might have head offices in the U.K. but the firm is a US company. Don’t tell me that once employees are dictating less and less hours be worked they won’t just close down operations in the U.K. It’s another turkeys voting for Christmas situation. You want to force a four day week? Well here’s a zero day week, good luck.

Except offshoring hasn’t go to well for some, one reason was time zones. Plus most US companies pay higher wages than their Uk counterparts.

@ClowningAround21 Im sorry.

Clowning - I am afraid that is an extreme example.

Most of the shirking is because people can do it and involves people fitting in work around their children. Unfair to the tax payers for the civil service and for the private companies whose profits reduce because people arent working as they should do.

The person who mentions measuring by tasks and how long a task should take is crazy. When I had an issue with a client or a problem it depended what it was as to how long it took. I would laugh with Manager said that should only have taken you xx mins. For example we had a well known central government dept who had forgotton to order a very important product (technology) to enable them to bid for some business overseas. I spent hours/days getting them pushed to the top of the queue to implement the service which involved speaking to senior directors and organising business cases.

We all sadly know they people who are never around, who have every excuse to not be at their desk or who decline an urgent review of a client query or sale because they are just walking the dog or JUST HAVE to go to do the school pick up.

It’s inconvenient but not as much as paying an employee for below par work because they are looking after kids.

I think it’s interesting - we offer slightly compressed hours in that staff can start earlier and leave earlier or work through lunch. We wouldn’t be able to offer a 4 day week though as we have customers and need to get orders out every day.
We need to be open when our customers are open. There would be no need to start much before 8 or work beyond 5 as all our customers have gone home by then anyway.
I can see it leading to some resentment for companies who just can’t offer that kind of flexibility.

There is a spectrum here re childcare. Most employers are fine with emergency situations, sickness etc but reasonably expect childcare to be in place. Anyone with an under 5 should absolutely have robust childcare arrangements in place if they expect to work.

wrap-around isn’t always as easy but there are options for reducing hours, picking up work in the evening etc in many cases a school aged child can come home and watch tv for a few hours with minimal disruption.

I do however think some people take the absolute piss with school holiday childcare and trying to work without paying for camps. Fine for the odd day but I don’t think it’s ok to be working from a soft play because ‘there’s no childcare’. Sometimes I’ve needed to travel a fair bit for camps and clubs but I do it because I couldn’t do my job properly for weeks with my kids at home.