To not understand the negativity about schools in England

[Desperatefornachos]

I’m British but live abroad.
My Dd is in a school where we are (she’s 6)
I’m not impressed with any of the schools, I remember schools in England being nice when I was younger and watching a series on CBeebies (time for school) the facilities and way of teaching seems so fantastic in the Early years. I would love that for my Dd and it’s the one thing that’s making me question possibly returning home.

However, all I ever hear/read is how rubbish the schools/education system is in England..why??

We don't in real life though. More than half the adults I know are teachers due to a combination of me being one and my hobby (am dram) being one that seems to attract teachers in hordes. Obviously, as with any professional job, there are stresses and strains and points in the year where things get pretty rough. But by and large most of us range from mostly content to loving our jobs.

I think schools are worse than they used to be due to shortages of teachers. But still better than many other countries. They do need to improve a lot though.

Definitely the underfunding of school and public sector and cost of living impacting everything and everyone has skewed people’s perception of education in the UK and it is genuinely made things more difficult.

Overall what is sad is the lack of appreciation of free education that is of a pretty amazing standard on a global scale and the opportunities that can come of it - I find those that have experience poor education in other countries are in awe of UK education. However it’s easier (sadly) to spot the faults when you have the privilege of it with zero comparison to anything else.

Yes lots does need to change about UK education. But in hindsight it’s a good system that once worked so much better than it does now.

"Children who have disabilities should have allowances made, that's the law."
It isn't the children with disabilities who cause the problems. It's the disaffected ones who can't be bothered to learn and would rather carry on chatting, doing their hair, or just annoying someone. It is also the law that schools have to provide a balanced curriculum for everyone, even if those who aren't interested.

Because brits love to moan?

There are probably some very shit schools which make this justifiable.

Others probably less so.

Teachers are ground down, defeated, told they mustn't expect obedience from Timmy because he's got PDA, Millie's parents have a private doctor telling them she needs all sorts of adjustments (all of which have resulted in things getting worse, not better). Repeat offenders get sent to the head for hot chocolate and chats. Parents insist their parenting is absolutely in no way a factor in anything and school are getting everything wrong - they can't possibly know what they are doing with a child like theirs (i mean they've only taught 2000 children in the last decade, they couldn't possibly know).

^

This rings so true.

Nephew has PDA and it's exactly what you've said. No obedience expected from him, so it's a free for all. He's totally in control. Like Lord of the Flies. He's 10 years old.

Brother and SIL will not accept any responsibility for his behaviour, or even try to parent him because, as we know, he's got PDA. In no way is their patenting a factor.

*parenting, they aren't patenting anything!

IME lots of British schools are riven with totally unchecked bullying & violence (under the guise of ‘rough and tumble play’ and ‘fostering resilience’) underpinned by a culture of casual sadism from adults. Also the obsession with enforcing total compliance in the wearing of uncomfortable and impractical uniform.

^

This is a bit another brick in the wall

Yeah, the scourge of SEND children and their parents. Shocking.

Here's why;

• there is no inclusion. Kids with any additional needs are kicked out to protect "ratings"
• there is a massive emphasis on academic performance from a young age (e.g. 5). If your child isn't meeting "standards" then there is a "problem"
• rules. Kids have zero autonomy. For example, children in secondary school (teens) cannot get their nails done, colour their hair, etc. This is wrong and has an impact on basic human rights.

In no particular order;

Lack of funding

A culture that values high exam results and treats anyone who doesn't get a load of top grades as lacking.

An inflexible curriculum

Parents who will never believe their little Johnny/Jemimah are wrong.

Parents competing with one another via their child's esults.

Teachers who behave like they're the only people in the world with a tough job.

Lack of respect towards teachers, especially following COVID which has led some parents to believe they know better.

Teachers who have no understanding of SEN and aren't willing to learn.

Those are the negatives.

On the positive side , both of my children have had a good education overall. The eldest particularly as her secondary school was brilliant.

The youngest was ok (,2 years left) apart from the appalling primary school who failed to act on my concerns about his reading. I then had the joy of getting him an EHCP and funding for a good specialist dyslexia school. If I had not done that I don't know what would have happened. He passed all of his GCSEs thanks to that school. But it wasn't easy and the primary school should have acted previously.

I have been so impressed with my kids' schooling in England. Good facilities, great teachers and interesting and engaging topics. They've both made good progress and enjoyed their school life. And we are in the inner city. Not some leafy grammar school area. I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

Not all schools are failing. It depends where you live to an extent as well. Cities seem to fair less well. Large class sizes. Large schools. We have always been rural and both primary and secondary schools (been to a few due to moving) have been good. Secondary really supported my eldest to perform well in GCSE’s. We have been really happy with the schools.

If by 'inner city' you mean London, schools in London massively outperform the rest of the country.

@garlictwist inner city schools often outperform many others, it's easy to recruit teachers as they want to live in/near the city.

Sleepy seaside towns and former industrial towns with poor transport links that people don't want to live in, high levels of unemployment due to seasonal work, high levels of parental illiteracy and disengaged youth without the activities available to them that inner city children have is the issue nowadays. In city's you have a wider mix of well off / well rounded children to dilute the poor behaviour of those often being raised in the most challenging of circumstances.

I think the only way to answer this question is to have had experience of schools in other countries. As the vast majority of posters on this thread won't have had this, their viewpoints are almost irrelevant to OPs question.

I can't think of a single country where people don't complain about state education, for basically all the same reasons stated here. It's not unique to England.

I disagree with this (aside from the points about the curriculum).

For one reason or another, the level of SEN is increasing beyond a point we can cope with, and it starts before they arrive at school. It’s stretched the services so thin that all they can give the kids are the bare minimum, if that.

Our spending is roughly in line with comparable countries, and spending on SEN is very high. The issue is the demand but I have no idea what can be done about that.

School funding has reduced hugely. For example my child’s primary school is £320k worse off in real terms than 5 years ago.
Covid wasn’t managed well with lots of flip flopping and long periods with no education or stressed teacher’s trying to teach from home with their own children with them. When lockdowns finished whilst every other country realised that a period of adjustment and focus on social skills and wellbeing was needed, the government decided to focus on ‘catching up’ then created a half baked and drastically underfunded tutoring with private companies making quite a lot, rather than funding schools.
At the same time NHS has been crippled and so whe child mental health was at a terrible level across the country, schools had no money to help and CAMHs were on their knees. So children with severe mental health difficulties were being ‘managed’ as best staff could.
The inspection regime demanded more and more control of students and absolute achievement levels were prioritised (value added used to be a much more important measure which meant great schools in very challenging areas could still do well).
Teachers and school staff yearly got poorer and poorer as no inflationary pay increases were given. The job was getting almost impossible and so lots of staff left with few replacements.
Simultaneously, Special needs provision which is provided for by the council has become increasingly rationed. Parents have to fight for even the most clear cut and obvious needs. So mainstream staff are trying to cope with children with very high needs, for less money, whilst short staffed, under pressure they will fail ofsted, whilst large numbers of children have mental health conditions… all whilst they themselves can’t pay the bills or see a doctor.

That’s without going into foodbanks, reduction in free school meals, decimation of youth services etc..

No wonder our kids are some of the most depressed in the world.

Schools have changed a lot in 10 years. And not for the better.

No, not London. Leeds.

You are lucky then, because I teach somewhere much leafier than inner city Leeds and my school is really struggling to get teachers. Any teachers, let alone great ones.

It is! But I’ve lived in a few countries and nowhere but the UK have I seen such a laissez-faire approach to violence among students. Supported by a general feeling from staff that it’s probably good for them.

My godson had his foot broken in reception and his collarbone in Yr 1, and his friend the same age suffered a fractured skull - all in the course of ‘rough and tumble play’ (pushing one another off climbing frames, tripping each other over on the pavement, crushing one another into the wall at the side of the school) which the teachers were adamant was crucial to the psychosocial development of boys in particular. Seemed awfully backwards to me.

You can easily email your MP. Of everyone on this thread did it it would have an impact.

Academisation. Wacky punitive behaviour policies with no basis in evidence, SLTs that assume they are above the law, (employment and equality), the lack of any meaningful accountability, plus curriculum reforms that are unfit for the modern world.

@Fluffyowl00 I've emailed my MP, who has been great, but still nothing gets done.

This is in the press today... my DDs school isn't mentioned but is one of the 200+ schools impacted.

As usual when this story is covered, no mention is given to the impact on teachers and students.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj35v5xky0xo