To ask a stupid question? Noah's Ark

[Besttimelftheyear]

So I am not religious, but I would say I was brought up Christian. I would say my parents were non practicing Christians, but I was taught bible stories as truth and facts. The logical adult in me now says that most of the events can be explained quite simply.

Onto the question. Noah's Ark, is there any evidence of a global flood? Noah was supposed to have taken two of each animals onto the boat while the earth was flooded and wiped out everything else.

Surely this was simply a regular flood like we see today?

What are peoples beliefs or knowledge on this?

I'm not sure establishing that there was indeed a flood would be enough to convince me that some old guy built an ark (quickly) and stowed away 2 of every species of animal to save them!!

I’m not a theologian, but I recall listening to a debate when I was at uni on the historicity of religion, and whilst there is evidence (not much but enough) that a man named Jesus existed and I think evidence John the Baptist existed there is no evidence of Noah ever existing, so if I’m remembering correctly, scholars don’t think he did rather that he is an allegorical figure.

cant recall if the same was to be said for Moses and king David etc

They came after Noah. For instance the Grand Canyon is formed during the flood.

I really hope you’re joking ??

No and I've even studied Geography for a year. I used to just believe what they told me there, that it was billions of years old and such. But now no I believe it's just caused by the flood.
https://g3min.org/the-flood-matters-the-grand-canyon-and-the-age-of-the-earth/

In order for a fossil to take place, it must undergo a swift burial that prevents a total decaying process of bones and preserves the animal from the elements which speed up the decaying process. In addition, this burial also conceals the animal from other wildlife and scavengers that would otherwise consume the meat and scatter the bones. To have such a large number of fossils preserved in the rock layers is indicative of swift burial that occurred during a cataclysmic event.
Any serious student of the Grand Canyon formation must face the reality that the fossilized sponges, squid, and other sea dwelling fish never lived in the Colorado River. The theory of the Colorado River cutting away rock layers over millions of years simply doesn’t hold up to the massive amount of evidence in the rock strata of the Grand Canyon’s walls. While the fossil records contradict the evolutionary theory often told about the Grand Canyon, they do not explain what actually happened.

A whole year ??? Wow
what a load of utter nonsense

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a45700571/was-noahs-ark-found/

@Besttimelftheyear an interesting read for you

Any serious student of the Grand Canyon formation must face the reality that the fossilized sponges, squid, and other sea dwelling fish never lived in the Colorado River.

What? 😂 the layers of rock, including fossils, were laid down billions to hundreds of millions of years ago, when there were seas there - the Colorado river came, and cut down through those layers, much later. Of course those creatures weren't in the river, what sort of idiot would imagine for a moment they were?

That's what most christians on christian forums say too, so I don't know why I even bothered to answer.

From a big picture perspective, everyone dies no matter what, the Old Testament is largely a playing out of what that means. Humans become separated from the source of life by embracing untruths, and then they begin to die. Abel and Cain, and the flood, are kind of a continuation of that story, evil behaviour just gets worse and worse. Even Moses giving people rules doesn't do the trick. Trying to pick out the few honest people (Abraham, Noah, etc) doesn't do it. None of their attempts at politics fixes it. The priests don't fix it.

It's a dark story because it reflects the human experience.

David was a historical figure.

A lot of people think Moses was a real person but there aren't really any other records to say so - but that's about what you would expect. But the way he is written about is rather different from Noah.

But surely you realise that a year of studying a subject hardly scratches the surface of the whole of that subject? Did you also study geology which would be far more pertinent to the formation of the canyon? As to its age rather than shortening it to mere thousands of years in recent times scientists have questioned whether it isn't millions of years older than previously thought.

The last is very much the difference between science and the sort of pseudo science that looks to create evidence that the old testament is all real. Scientists are aware that knowledge isn't static, we discover more and that can change our understanding of things we thought to be a fact. Pseudo biblical "scientists" use biblical stories and scant research or evidence to attempt to create a monolithic "truth" that is never changing.

Not every bit of the bible was supposed to taken as a true and accurate history. You can be a faithful believer and know that. You can find every chapter and verse of the bible important and know that. There are very few people who will take you seriously if you insist it's all true not least because some of it is contradictory. I'm sure this doesn't matter to you and I get it, just because you're in the minority doesn't mean the majority is right all the time. Sometimes, however, it is the majority who are on the right track and just about everything points to this being one of those times.

And why do you think that is ?

Modern day breeding programmes for endangered species have failed despite all the science and interventions. I highly doubt a guy thousands of years ago on a wooden boat presumably with no food and surrounded by diseased flood water would have had much success.

And let's not talk about all the other brutal genocides and kidnappings and virgin rapes that the good Lord God Yaweh ordered. The seige of Jericho was a lot of fun, wasn't it? What a catchy song. Just a shame about all the slaughtered children.

It was a global flood. Read the account in Genesis 6.

Three quick thoughts on it:

It was a global flood: 1.The whole purpose of it was to kill everyone who would not repent, I.e. everyone on the earth, bar Noah, as he and his family were the only people who feared and loved God. Of everyone else the Bible says 'the thoughts of their hearts were only evil continually'. Noah preached for 120 years warning people and what did they do? They mocked him.

It was a global flood: 2. What was the point of bringing two of every animal on the face of the earth into the ark if the flood wasn't global. The account in Genesis 6 states that the purpose of the flood was to destroy all living creatures on the earth.

It was a global flood: 3. God does not break His promises. He cannot because He IS Truth itself. He made a covenant that He would not globally flood the earth again. That was the whole point of the rainbow. We wouldn't be here if God hadn't shown mercy to Noah and his family.

This is not an exhaustive list. Read the Bible. The world lies. God doesn't.

@Besttimelftheyear
Watch Ancient Apocalypse | Netflix Official Site
this was an interesting show and mass flooding was a central part of the series if i remember well.

Fundamentalist Christians take it all literally.

Mainstream Christian denominations fall somewhere along the spectrum of prima scriptura to sole scriptura.

This sounds similar to present day Marsh Arab dwellings. Or the former dwellings, since Saddam Hussein's regime systematically destroyed the marsh region with the aim of wiping them out.

I find it quite incredible the two penguins walked and swam all the way from Antarctica to Mesopotamia to join Noah. Or did Noah go and get a couple of them. The bible doesn't seem to explain this very well.

And unicorns? Why didn't he save a couple of them?

What I don't get, aside from the breeding issues and narrow gene pool you get with only a pair of each animal, is - what about the food chain?
You have two lions, two tigers, two leopards. What do they eat for all that time on the ark? You only have a pair of wildebeest, a pair of antelope etc.

I'm not even going to ask how the tigers were persuaded onto there in the first place!

The swimmy things would probably have been OK without the ark. If a bit knackered.

Christianity makes no sense to me. Parts of it do, the basic ‘be a decent human and do as you would be done by’ etc. But all the nonsense about women being subservient and silent can get in the bin. Paul was clearly a woman hating incel.

But back on the topic, imagine the Boxing Day tsunami back two thousand years ago when we barely understood weather and geography. It would have felt like the entire world was flooded because they didn’t know any better.

And that’s why I believe religion has lost its relevance. We didn’t know any better back then so people made up stories. Now we do.

It would be impossible to have a world wide flood, there is only so much water on the earth.

As for two of each animal. Well I doubt a couple of each type of penguin would make it 10 000 miles to climb on to an Ark.

And what about aquatic life? Some fish can only live in salt water and some can only live in salt water. A world wide flood would leave all water brackish.

A man definitely didn't put 2 of every animal on a boat. Not probably. Definitely.