Twins and University

[Decoratingdilema]

First thing to say is yes I am being totally unreasonable to be worrying about this now.

I have twin girls who are 6. I saw a Martin Lewis article the other day where he talked about maintenance loans for universities. The basic jist of it was that if you had a joint household imcome of £25k then you’d get the full loan.

our joint income is about £85k so I’m not sure how much, if any they’d be entitled to. We’d have to cover rent, food, books etc. It’s got me on a spiral of worrying about how we’d afford this if both of them decided that university was the path that they’d want to take.

Should we be saving now just in case his happens?

honestly this is not a stealth boast, I’m genuinely fearful of planning and being able to afford this should they both want to go.

Then there’s the driving lessons at the same time

I know this is on AIBU but if there is any other twin parents who could share their experience that would be great

so

YANBU - it’s never too early to plan

YABU - they’re 6 get a grip 😂

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid - you can't 'choose' to take the full loan. The amount is allocated to the student and is dependent on the total income of their house (so parent(s), plus any step parent and/or live-in partner of parent). Full loans are only available to those with a household income of £25K or less. Everyone get the fees loan.

It does vary in the different countries of the UK eg in Scotland, Scottish students get free university. In wales, everyone get the full amount, but the balance between grant and loan is dependent on household income. They also get more than the max loan available in England.

Thank you!

The other thing I would add is that parents should educate their children with realistic messages about finance, careers expectations. This is because they will hear messages a la ‘do what makes you happy’ at school (inadvertent things teachers say, like ‘oh you’re good at art so you should become an artist’) and they will also be lured into a modus operandi of curating their life so that they can post photos on insta.

An important message to hear is something akin to ‘no one set out to become a supermarket area manager’, or something like that. Young people need to know that it’s OK and normal, a good thing to be proud of, to go get a regular job and aim to work hard. They need to understand that their friends who did a degree in Pure Waft, who then, for ‘work life balance’, spent their time mostly travelling and drinking, buying trendy clothes etc, will still be living with their parents at 30, depressed.

We have b/g twins - sorry I think you are massively overthinking this. It’s not hugely different to people who have two children. Twins are massively more expensive? No they are as expensive as having two kids.

When my sons were born I used the government's child trust fund and put aside £100 a month for each of them. I don't think that exists but I imagine there are similar products that are fairly low risk. When DS1 turned 18 it was £22,000 and for DS2 it was £24,000. I know that some people would struggle to find that but an even smaller amount will get a decent lump sum.
I had a full grant at University but my parent's couldn't contribute much and that started my terrible relationship with credit and debt. I think it is worth putting aside what you can afford regularly and hopefully in an ISA or similar where you can get some growth. They can both access small maintenance loans but at least I don't have to worry too much now about them eating and having a roof over their heads.

Literally one person has said 'you should be easily able to put that amount away.'
Everyone else has caveated 'save what you can if you can afford it.'
Hardly 'a lot of assumptions.'

besides which 2 households with the same income could have completely different expenses. There are huge variables in how much different households pay in tax (if it's 1 income of £85k vs 2 x £42.5k), mortgage/rent, childcare, ctax, bills, etc... one could easily save £200, another wouldn't be able to save a pound. Just because you struggle to save doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else on the same income as you.

If you earn a decent amount they may only be able to get the minimum loan.
What they can borrow is based on YOUR income, which seems crazy to me as you won't be the one to pay it back.
The calculations are based on income only so don't take your outgoings into account so you might have very little if any spare money and your child can still only borrow the minimum, plus you are under no obligation to give them anything at all

Even if they go to uni it might not be at exactly the same time. I didn't go to uni until age 20 and DS1 didn't either. DD is considering applying for entry in 2025 and, if she goes, will be starting at age 20 too. Between us we've done a combination of A level re-sits, taking time out to work, and completing an Art Foundation course which is usually done post 18.

If you can afford to save then do it as they might need some other financial help even if they don't go to uni. There's also nothing wrong IMO in expecting them to work for a year while living at home, save some money and asking them to contribute to the cost too.

As stated on the Martin Lewis website parents are expected to make up the difference. OK you are not obligated to but do you want to be a parent that meets their obligations or expectations?
I appreciate that many people cannot afford to give their children money for uni but they should give serious thought to this when buying large house/car, holiday, meals out or having more children.

The obligation thing is an odd one. My children got the minimum. There was no letter sent to me to say ‘Hey, you need to make up the difference’. There is an implied assumption. Not all higher income parents have the spare cash. Typically your peak earnings are when you have peak outgoings, like the mortgage.

Imagine if legislation were changed to MAKE parents liable though for the debt and funding commitments of young adults? Can you imagine the AIBU threads? ‘Help, my 18 year old got a loan for a car, didn’t pay and now the family home is at risk!’

If it’s any consolidation, at least we’re not in the U.S, where, in some states, children can be made responsible for paying the care costs of ageing parents.

This. It may not apply to this poster who may be on £25,000 or less but it’s a frightening delusion among various high earning parents I know that their children can just ‘decide’ to take the full loan.

I actually think it’s appalling. Children of high earning parents who can’t or won’t fund university are completely screwed. If the parents are also of the ‘I moved out at 18 (to university accommodation at a time when there were no tuition fees), you should too’ type, the kids can be seriously badly off.

If the government wants to base the loan amount on parental income, they need to legally require the parents to pay the relevant top up. Please note, I absolutely don’t think they should do this, I’m just pointing out that without this requirement, the rules on loan amounts make no sense.

This year the minimum Maintenance Loan* (paid to students to help with living costs) for students who move out of the parental home during term-time is £4,767 and your twins, if they were starting this year, would both be entitled to that much (at the moment your income is above the means-test threshold). The government does assume that parents will help their children.

A number of PP have mentioned triplets. If there are three or more siblings at uni at the same time, Student Finance England can split the 'assessed parental contribution' which will mean the siblings get a bigger Maintenance Loan. Sadly, this doesn't kick in if there are two at uni at the same time.

Please note, student finance packages can change but I think it's not a bad idea to start saving to support your children in early adulthood if it's an option for you.

*Awarded by Student Finance England to somebody going to a uni outside of London - the Loan usually increases between 1 and 2% each year although final year students are awarded a little less than they are in earlier years.

[Edited a typo]

God, yes. Someone needs to post this thread whenever the ubiquitous ‘should I have a third child’ threads come up

Check the student finance info linked in a pp. The assumption is that parents top up and/or students work. There are different loan figures depending on whether the student is studying in London or not, and living away from home or living at home. Our DS lived away from home, not in London. Our income is past the point at which the student can borrow more than the minimum. From memory, he could borrow about £4-4.5 k; we topped up to what the maximum was that a student from a low income family could borrow, which was about £9k then, so we gave him £5k a year, and gave it to him differently each year. In year 1 he was in halls and paid the hall fees termly, so we gave him his money in thirds- he’s sensible and we knew he wouldn’t blow it in week 1. In later years he was renting privately and paying monthly so we gave him his money monthly. In his last year we gave him a bit extra due to the increased cost of living. He worked each vacation back home in Tesco but was doing a STEM course with long hours so he didn’t work in term time.

And yes, I wish we’d saved earlier even with one, so I’d get started now. Compound interest will add more over the longer term.

Actually prob not as they make allowances for 2 in uni at same time

It’s not always possible though - if you’re doing something on the more medicine or nursing route for example, placements take up a lot of time and make it a real challenge to work during term time.
On that income I’d definitely be saving for them - if you manage to get a higher return through a ss Isa for example, they’d end up with a really good amount. If they don’t need it then bonus!

I postponed uni but a few years so it was me who was means tested, not my family. It meant I got the full whack

Tuition fees have not been raised for a decade. I was working in a University for two years before they were introduced by a Labour government, please hold that thought as most seem to forget this.

It was very true that over a lifetime a graduate should have earned 250k more.I have no idea what figures are now but there are not suddenly more jobs at graduate level with the commensurate salary. Almost 40% of school leavers now attend.

Really the faffing about with HE policy has not worked. What the answer is God only knows, it’s in crisis currently with almost all Universities offering severance deals to staff. So what shape it will be in 12 years is unknown. My DH retires at the end of September having taken a deal.

Save always, as much as you can for any event expected or not. But be aware there are other routes to success. Our DS is doing a Degree apprenticeship, guaranteed job, will earn his degree with zero tuition fees and is already on almost 30k pa.The guys who developed the house next door to us happily told us they both made 85k PA as builders and that was their limit for tax reasons as they could have earned more.

When it comes to an ISA for a child remember that child will have full control over that money at 18 and you have zero idea if they will be fiscally responsible. I mean your twins are six, they are still very cute at that age.

We have twins and started saving monthly after we were given a CTF ( thanks Gordon Brown) they are now 16 and have enough to cover UK fees for a degree.
Absolutely start saving now, it is very much worth it.

We have twins and a DS who is just 16 months older so it will be an expensive time for us too. They will be expected to fund some of their own expenses by working.

Gosh, how very insulting. You do realise there are competitive graduate schemes to become supermarket area managers? The Aldi one had a starting salary of over £40k when I graduated 15 years ago. An M&S area manager earns a 6 figure salary and up to 100% bonus. I think you need a better example! It's not something you tend to work up to from the shop floor.

Not twins but we have 2 close in age and yeah we worry about it. It’s a different situation to when I went to uni, the very last year before tuition fees were introduced

we are very lucky to be in a position to pay off the mortgage in a year or so after which we will be saving hard (kids upper primary atm)

however we are of the view that Uni is so expensive that we will not push it unless they really want to go and need to go for their chosen career

Twins are hugely expensive. I also have twin girls and we were skint when they were at primary school. Just enough to live on, not save.

Thankfully things improved by the time they were at secondary and we could afford the double clubs, double school trips then driving lessons and a shared little car.

Only one went to uni. She got the minimum loan, we gave her a set amount each month and so did my in laws. She also got a part time job.

Yes start saving a few hundred £ a month into an isa for them. They will get the minimum pain on your income so you will be expected to fund the rest. My daughter is just about to head off to university and we have been saving since she was born. Not specifically for university but for her future. It’s expensive!
Use the MSE savings calculator to see how much you’ll have after 12 years adding £200 monthly . Compound interest is a wonderful thing!

£200 a month and £300 a month

• min loan not pain