To think warehouse workers and shop assistants have very different jobs?

[LovelyBitOfHam]

Inspired by this article regarding Next workers, similar to previous cases with supermarkets.

AIBU to think these are very different roles, and it’s fair to pay warehouse workers a higher wage?

I have worked retail before and didn’t love it, but I don’t think I would ever accept a job in a warehouse.

I’m also very aware that working in a store in a shopping mall or city centre is far easier to get to than an out of town warehouse on an industrial estate, and pay should reflect this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0817jd9dqo

Ps I always find level of difficulty etc so subjective and hate when people talk down jobs as ‘unskilled’ - in retail nearly everything is a skill- dealing with complaints, merchandising, ordering, cashing out etc, in a warehouse there’s so much organisation needed, coordination etc- there is no such thing really as unskilled work (from a lab technician that literally just added a certain amount of solution to vials for two years but needed a degree to do it!!). A job is a job is a job

Yes, ACAS:"By law, men and women must get equal pay for doing 'equal work'. This is work that equal pay law classes as the same, similar, equivalent or of equal value."

Historically there were many jobs which were traditionally "men's" or "women's". The initial equal pay legislation covered only "the same job`" if I remember correctly. This did little to narrow the gap between men's and women's pay, and hence the "work of equal value" provision was brought in.

YABU. Both entry level jobs that don't need any particular qualifications, I don't see why one should be paid more than the other.

Arguably customer service requires a broader skillset and so should be paid more.

@MereDintofPandiculation ir is the equal value bit people find difficult. There are experts on Job Design who look at alm
the tasks and what skills you need. They are then evaluated. So the jobs don’t have to be the same. Next we’re arguing market forces but this doesn’t trump the equal value argument. Unless the next stage says it does.

Birmingham Dinner ladies were paid less than bin “men” and street cleaners. They also won. Their work is of equal value.

These cases are so dangerous - six+ years of back pay. This will be the death knell for next. Look what’s happened to Birmingham council. There should be a statutory limit on back pay for these claims now that we are no longer in the EU.

Handling customers and money I would say is higher skill than a warehouse operative.

My dh works in a warehouse now after working in a public facing role. He prefers the warehouse as don’t have to deal with public.
They are always short on staff though and get a lot come and go.

pay doesn’t always reflect which job is more difficult, skilled etc it can be simply what a company need to pay to get someone to do the job. If next were offering £x an hour for both warehouse and shop maybe they got loads of applications for shop but hardly any for warehouse for whatever reason. They need people to work in warehouse still so they have to raise the hourly rate to attract people to the job. The reverse could happen if you got loads of applications for a warehouse and none for shop.

if they already have enough people for the shop at £x an hour it doesn’t seem right to me that they should have to pay more just because they are having to increase the warehouse rate to attract people. Shop people could go and get jobs in the warehouse if they wanted to

There is a limit on back pay I think in terms of years. However Next hasn’t dealt with this. It is not new legislation! Yes, look at Birmingham. Lots of companies are embroiled in this. Supermarkets - and it’s been dragging on for 10 years! Clearly that’s not acceptable. The legislation was pretty clear but they have relied on the market forces argument. However it’s difficult to justify that as a pay policy as it’s probably illegal.

DH works in a food warehouse for one of the major retailers.
Hours - he has shifts that start as early as 4am. In the run up to Christmas his hours ramp up to 12 hour days from 8 hour days.the first week in December he does a 5 day week, the second week he does a 6 day week and the final week before Christmas he does 7 days straight. He is not allowed to book any annual leave for December. If he's on night shift he actually leaves for work at 6pm on Christmas Day so that the warehouse is operating through the night so food is in store by opening time on Boxing Day.
Bank Holidays are normal working days. (He has to claim back for worked bank holidays).
He has to ensure lorries are loaded safely and securely, that frozen food is kept within temperature parameters; that fork lift and lorry drivers are working to regulations; that staff aren't stealing. The list is endless...

I’ve worked in next retail customer service and I’ve also worked in M&S and other warehouses . I’ll tell you which one I preferred and found easier and it wasn’t the customer service work!

But if warehouses need to pay more to be more competitive it’s a bit tricky.

tizer yes there is a limit to back pay - 6 years! Up to the date the claim was launched in the tribunal - so if it was launched 4 years ago, it’s 10 years! Insolvency time.

@MrsMoastyToasty They can pay extra for shift work. It’s the basic hourly rate that’s the issue. Plus Next don’t do food. All staff in supermarkets can do shifts and work long hours.

A lot of the issues around Xmas and bank holiday working will apply to the retail staff too.

No there should not. Employers should follow the law if they want to avoid these cases.

I had a similar experience when I worked in a leisure centre. The role of leisure attendant (which primarily attracted males), was paid at a much higher rate than the role of Creche assistant, (which mostly attracted females.) Yes the leisure attendant role was slightly more physical, but Creche assistants were left in charge of infants and toddlers, and had to follow OFSTED guidelines, and plan and record daily activities, nappy changing/toileting etc. More importantly Creche assistants were required to have a relevant level 3 qualification, while leisure attendants were unqualified. 🙄

When I was young I worked for employers where there was blatant pay discrimination. It used to be very common. It should have ended a long time ago.

Having done both warehouse & shop floor (and been paid the same for both, incidentally, via an agency) I'd take the warehouse over the shop floor!

I don't think I would be worrying about Next's net worth, profits, shareholders or its CEO Lord Wolfson, I'm sure they will be fine. Not really comparable to Birmingham Council

That's awful.

But then childcare workers are treated terribly by society in general.

I’ve worked on the shop floor and in a warehouse and the warehouse is significantly harder work. I’m a woman and don’t see why Next shouldn’t be able to pay a premium for the harder jobs. That’s literally just market forces in action. This isn’t about equal pay for equal work because it’s not equal work. Working in a warehouse is harder.

I'd find dealing with the public more stressful but warehouse work is much more dangerous. Being around reversing trucks, fork lifts, boxes stacked really high on racks, etc.

I remember going to an Aldi (or was it Lidl) depot and they were whizzing around on electric ride on pump trucks. I remember thinking it wouldn't be fun to get rammed by one of them!

I've done both shop floor and retail work. They were... different. I'm not sure which was harder. Although I don't recall being paid extra when I was sent from a store to go and work at a warehouse. Where's my cash! I'm already mildly resentful of the fact I should have been able to claim travel and lunch, but no one told me.

Pay usually goes up with the risk of personal danger/injury. Hence why the drivers at Biffa etc are on £45k+.

It does go up with skills as well though, and being trusted with money.

I would have thought forklift operators and the like are paid more, this is about the entry level staff I think? Sorry haven't had a chance to read about it.

Retail you need to be well-presented, able to talk to people, handle cash, process card transactions, process refunds, handle complaints, keep an eye out for shoplifters… much more demanding than warehouse work, I would have thought. When I worked in a shop (long time ago) we had to have all the warehousing skills as well because we were receiving stock into the storeroom, restocking etc on top of the front of house stuff.