To ask what you'll be doing to avoid the Labour tax hikes

[OptimismvsRealism]

Pension contributions
Gift aid
Selling my shares now while CGT is relatively low

What really worries me is that all the professionals we actually need to want to be here will just fuck off elsewhere, though.

It's not like we're knee deep in hospital doctors.

Those naughty old folk, who had the sheer temerity to live during the period they did. And of course, they made policy during that time. And of course, they should not be allowed to live to a ripe old age.

Shame on you. Truly.

Nope. No shame here. They will take far more than they ever put in. Free education, great house inflation, good pensions, triple lock. All the while families who are struggling with every increasing costs, mortgages, student debt, house prices and inflation are expected to fund everyone else. Including the triple lock and all the NHS care for pensioners sat on millions of assets?

Nope. Hopefully things like the WFA are just the start; at least redistribute it to the elders who aren’t hoarding millions in assets. They need help, those pensioners hoarding assets need to start paying their way. Shame on them.

Your anger is misdirected.

Try the government of the day. Enjoy Labour whilst you can - you will soon start squealing when they come for your meagre pot.

I haven't read the whole thread. But I, for one, am looking forward to paying higher taxes.

Taxation is an important part of the price we pay for civilisation.

I'm fairly well off. No inheritance, born into poverty in fact, but I've always found it easy to make money. I'm aware that's not true of everyone. Really, it's a kind of cleverness; just not everyone has it.

I've given up making money now, just live on what I've made already. I probably won't need it (tax won't go up that much, at least in the near future), but if taxation really did start to bite, I've got a buffer I can rely on in the amount I regularly give to charity of various sorts. The need for such charitable gifts will diminish as tax goes to help the more needy, so a switch to paying tax would be good - not least in that some of you mean and selfish rich people would have to pay your share, as you currently don't.

Really I'm hoping for a tax on wealth as well as increases in income tax. Tobin tax would be good, too, and similar. Who knows? Maybe one day we will become properly civilised. Keep voting Labour, meanwhile; they're better than the alternative, as most people realise.

Well done - seriously.

Question.

How do you feel about your tax money being administered poorly? Wasted on a bloated public sector, a burgeoning benefits bill for those who would rather claim than work etc?

I think Labour are terrible. However what I find hilarious is they will come for everyone unless you’re a public sector worker. Turkeys and Christmas. PIP/DLA will be next.

For once, we are in semi-agreement.

I look forward to it because genuinely - like most of the 600k people hammered on PAYE. I am genuinely fucking sick of seeing over 60% marginals on parts of my pay being pissed up the wall with not a lot to show for it. Huge commuting costs, huge mortgage and huge tax bills to go with it. Only to be told constantly we are either rich by pensioners sat on millions of assets or people who do fuck all for a living but expect us to bank roll them.

The 600k on the highest tax band are in the majority very fed up. They are the ones paying for everyone else. They probably have less wealth than many pensioners.

Luckily my job is transferable to one of our global offices - currently looks like NYC, The salary is also higher. So there’s that.

It isn’t simply the tax revenue that is being lost, it’s investment into the country. It’s jobs and industry. Was the UK perfect before high net worth individuals left the country? No. Was it in a better position than it has been in recent years? Yes.

What we do know is that the UK isn’t the attractive proposition it needs to be.

The UK is at number 30 on the tax competitiveness index:

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/global/2023-international-tax-competitiveness-index/

That said, the UK economy did see a resurgence after old UK policies were updated with an eye to attract business, despite an increase in corporation tax. It worked. The UK capital allowances went from the worst in the OECD to the best. UK investment as a share of GDP, again the worst in the G7, rose:

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/eu/uk-business-investment-tax-reforms/

The government can possibly get a temporary boost from taxing the rich hard, but that isn’t an infinite resource, and what is lost as a result of doing so can amount to significantly more than what is gained. That may be acceptable on a personal and ideological level - as a ‘fuck them, would rather have nothing than compromise!’, but no one actually wants to live the reality of that.

First, talk of "bloated" public sector and "rather claim than work" is just (rather crude) propaganda put out by the selfish and mean people (intended, for the most part, for the consumption of stupid people). Seriously, check out the level of benefits available (I certainly couldn't exist on that); compare the size of the public part of the economy in UK with, oh, I dunno, ... oh, you must know the arguments here. Really, give yourself a break.

But, yes, of course we want a well-organised society. That goes for taxation and its use as well as anything else. Why not?

We are aligned.

I pay over 200k per annum in income tax,
and feel exactly as you do. I have had enough and will also move (I was previously working in Switzerland for five years).

I feel like an abuse victim - I am supposed to be grateful for it.

Just as well it isn’t the only option then, isn’t it?

Many will as they have in the past. The threshold is just different. Yet someone posted before that they don't believe the higher rate tax payers leaving is a problem. Things will recalibrate! Yes that will mean the lower rate tax payers being pushed to higher brackets and people wondering how come they are the ones with "broad shoulders" all of a sudden. Don't for once think the jobs will automatically be passed to people in the UK. Multinationals will move roles to geographies where they are more likely to find the right people. Feels like we have nothing going for us anymore in the UK. The lack of aspirations and vitriol against people doing better is depressing.

Indeed, Starmer means the top 1% of earners, anyone earning 60k and being ‘happy to pay more tax’ actually doesn’t have a horse in this race. To say ‘I would definitely pay more tax’ when you categorically will not, is bordering on irrelevant.

Thanks. So well put! Sadly lost on most people though.
Jeremy Hunt put forward some good ideas in the Mansion House reforms 2023. Starmer seemed supportive too. Let's hope common sense will prevail.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/mansion-house-2023

I think you are right RP.

It’s a race to the bottom. Some of us feel victimised and really not wanted - it’s clear. So, we go. My firm is looking at the usual jurisdictions for the material risk takers like me. I’ve already checked out of the UK but I do feel bitter tbh.

Another contender for peak MNer of the thread. This one may have just enough Intelligence stealth boasting thrown in to get it over the line into gold medal position. Bravo

I don’t feel bitter anymore. Forget em. Happy to pay lots of tax - genuinely. I want it to go to levelling up. I came from a back ground of poverty. I want to pay into schools and hospitals. What I won’t do is be told to pay more. Not when the IFS says we are already over taxed and underpaid compared to our higher earning counterparts in similar economies. We are funding all the lower and middle earners to be low taxed. No recognition for that. Just hollow proclamations of how they’d pay more. Rubbish. They should be mind.

I am sick of funding asset rich pensioners - who despite large incomes - probably have hugely more wealth and significantly less outgoings and will never pay as much tax. None of that unearned wealth in property is taxed. Yet it is ok to tax me at over 60% on some income? Then 45% Nah fuck that.

Honestly. I am not bitter at this point; just angry. The country gets the society it deserves. No-one is allowed to do well in a career. If you do, you’re rich and should shut up and pay. Nope. I am not funding asset rich pensioners and people who don’t work through choice. Why as a country do we have so many out of work? So many sick? It’s because for many it is a lifestyle choice and there is no mandatory prior contribution.

Let them get on with it and fund themselves I say. Not doing it anymore. I feel genuinely for the people who really need state support but it is what it is. A society can’t function when so few people are paying their fair share.

The only thing keeping many here is some sense of loyalty. Yet all of us with specialist skills with higher salaries abroad are easily replaceable. Good luck with that 😂

Amen sister.

Pensioners don’t work so they can’t threaten to strike.

Labour have said over and over again they won’t raise taxes for working people.

Pensioners don’t work, SAHMs don’t work, care home residents don’t work, residential or very disabled people don’t work, people on benefits don’t work - these are the ones who will be targeted either through higher taxes (on assets such as property) or by withdrawal of benefits (such as WFA) or cuts to services (such as social care funded by local authorities in your own home).

But at least the train drivers will be warm and cosy this winter as will the MPs claiming their £3k+ heating allowance.
Which is nice.

😡

Only on mumsnet do you find this kind of up your own arse detached from reality nonsense. Tens of thousands of people in this country using food banks, 1 in 4 kids living in
poverty, people doing the most important jobs in our society for £23,000 a year.

But millionaires aren’t really rich.

Grim, absolutely fucking grim.

One day you’ll get old. Your house will have increased in value by then and you’ll be classed as one of those asset-rich OAPs who are sitting on unearned property wealth.

I guess you’ll be happy to be taxed out of your home then so younger people can benefit, yes?

@TheAlchemy the 1 in 4 elderly households are millionaires are based on house prices and pension pots. A couple with a £600k house and a private pension of £8k each will be officially millionaire household in terms of assets.
With old state pension (new pensioners usually get more) it could mean an annual income of £32k to £38k for the household. It is not poor by any stretch of the imagination, but it is not a millionaire income either.

If you have a £600,000 house that is something most working people now can only ever dream of having. Most will never own their own home and are destined for a life paying someone else’s mortgage in rent.

If you’re struggling to get by in your £600,000 mansion then you should liquidate your assets and sell your house instead of expecting your children and grandchildren to pay for your heating.

Considering by the time I retire - I’d have paid millions in tax then I think society will have had their pound of flesh. Which is why it’s a moot point as I won’t be here to be bled more.

If as a worker I’d been taxed fairly and there was some acknowledgment (The IFS aside) that our taxes allow everyone else to be low taxed then maybe.

As it stands I probably won’t have a state pension, will certainly pay a fortune in pension taxes, will never have the opportunity of the pensions of old. I will gift assets to my children. Not those in society as a whole. Not staying here for it.

Pensioners nowadays on the whole never had it so good. Sat on millions of assets and not paying anything near enough to cover their life time costs. All the while the few pensioners with nothing had their WFA stripped and will struggle this winter.

Na this country won’t get one penny out of my estate as enough is enough. It will be abroad.