To ask what you'll be doing to avoid the Labour tax hikes

[OptimismvsRealism]

Pension contributions
Gift aid
Selling my shares now while CGT is relatively low

What really worries me is that all the professionals we actually need to want to be here will just fuck off elsewhere, though.

It's not like we're knee deep in hospital doctors.

What tax rises announced fit this narrative? I must have missed it. I agree that it’s wealth that needs taxing more fairly, not income.

Thank god you haven’t had to pay more into the shared public pot that would fund your emergency care should you be in an accident. Well done. Good job.

I’m curious for all of those now planning to leave ‘because of Labour’ - why were you happier here under tories? Even when it was clear they were spaffing ‘your’ money on their mates for PPE and dodgy contracts?

Were you happier in a country run by some of the most corrupt and incompetent people this country has ever produced, because they were quite literally starving disability claimants to death and children of benefits claimants were going hungry?
But a country where those issues could be addressed via more taxation is a county you will flee because it’s unfair to you?

Are you also happy to live with the label immigrant for the rest of your lives? Not expats but immigrants, and all the red tape and hoop jumping that comes with it? Being 'rich' and white doesn't save you from any of that.

And god forbid you end up in a country where the attitude to foreigners moving in, taking jobs and housing is on a par to the UK. I think a lot of British people are also very naive about how Euro countries view British people now - what used to be a slightly eyerolly attitude is a much deeper, open dislike now, thanks to the ‘fiscally responsible’ tories like Boris and good ol Nige shitting on every country to puff themselves up.
You might have money but you’re still viewed the same as the baked beans in Benidorm crowd.

The money you save as a two fingers to labour won't solve any of that.

Almost all. Have you heard of KS telling business leaders there are tough times ahead. Businesses don't pay cgt or into pensions or iht. Very wealthy individuals have many of ways of avoiding each of these too. However, these cost money to implement so are pointless for the ones who have some savings but not vast amounts. If you are wondering how wealthy enough people avoid tax look into Anas Sarvar setting up trust funds for his children. This is the leader of Scottish Labour whose family firm is well shady. I am sure there are others too. My point is politicians are fooling us and we are fighting each other.

We’re already paying a 51% effective tax rate at the top end and that came from the conservatives. Personally, we’re considering a few years abroad in a tax free jurisdiction just to accelerate income but we’ll wait and see what is proposed. It’s not avoidance - that’s illegal - but it is optimisation.

Taxes will go up - they need to - but it won’t just be for us.

People need to be more realistic too. As a country we cannot e.g. afford the NHS - it’s a creaking, mismanaged, overburdened service in an increasingly unhealthier and more ill country

my main worry is labour are clearly keen to spend a tonne having already handed out salary rises to certain groups without demanding improvements in services, tax the shit out of everyone while also being the party of promoting guaranteed rights to eg a four day week. They seem to stand for sloth and spend more

So if you don't work (for whatever reason) you literally contribute NOTHING to the public purse and the entire burden of supporting you falls on working people?

That is the most ridiculously unfair suggestion I have ever heard of

That’s already the position if you receive out of work benefits.
Don’t kid yourself they’re paying tax such as VAT - where do you think the spending money comes from in the first place? YOUR TAXES.

If people aren’t working they aren’t paying tax, they’re just re-spending someone else’s tax contribution, it’s just hidden rather well. At least my suggestion is open and clear about what’s really going on.

That’s not an integrity issue. That’s a change of policy in the face of shifting circumstances.

I'm being unexpectedly forced to do something I talked about wanting to do a decade ago because of something I 'just found out about'

Of course it's an integrity issue. Why lie? Why not just admit that this is something they've wanted to do for a very long time and now they have the opportunity?

Lol We are in for weeks of ever scarier stories about what Reeves will announce.

So far we've gone from income tax rises to taxing pension lump sums to CGT on main residences and now means testing state pensions.

they aren't "leaks" they are nothing more than peoples crazy imaginations.

Rather than this, why not ask where the £700 billion of Covid and Energy support money went?

Given to ordinary people, handed over to Energy companies and Banks, then moved overseas for further investment.

HSBC 21 Feb 2024 — Profit before tax rose by $13.3bn to $30.3bn

That’s already the position if you receive out of work benefits.
Don’t kid yourself they’re paying tax such as VAT - where do you think the spending money comes from in the first place? YOUR TAXES.

Yes, but at least the government recoup some of that through VAT, Fuel Duty etc. So unless you are proposing cutting any kind of benefit accordingly or placing the additional tax burden squarely on the shoulders of the spouse for anyone that is a SAHP (or getting top ups do they can work part time) then yes it's unfair.

Working people will pay significantly more for everything, and people that don't work or are underemployed just get to keep more of everyone else's money

I think there would be civil unrest if that was ever seriously considered

@StrawberrySwitch That’s not an integrity issue. That’s a change of policy in the face of shifting circumstances.

Rachel Reeves 2024:
”…those not in receipt of pension credit or certain other means-tested benefits will no longer receive the winter fuel payment,… Let me be clear: this is not a decision I wanted to make, nor is it the one that I expected to make, but these are the necessary and urgent decisions that I must make.“

Vs RR in 2014:
“We are the party who have said that we will cut the winter fuel allowance for the richest pensioners and means-test that benefit to save money,…”

She lied.
Means testing the WFA had been her aim for the last decade.
Claiming it was only done due to the financial legacy left by the Tories demonstrates a clear lack of integrity and honesty.

If anyone paid attention to what’s she’s actually said over the years -she makes George O look like Father Christmas.

Pensioners first, disabled next. It’s literally her intentions all along. If you’re not a public sector worker in a unionised industry - watch out.

We asked and booted the last government out ? I voted Labour in hope of growth fuelling policies and I am within my right to be disappointed in them along with the Tories.

@Oldfatandfrumpy You’re assuming the current benefits system would remain, there’s nothing that says it has to.

For those who can work, but who for whatever reason are not currently holding down a job, a portion of benefit payment could be dependent on unpaid work, such as volunteering in a hospital etc.

For those who cannot work the benefit could be tailored better to meet the needs of the recipient - physically disabled people receiving credits to spend on care, alcoholics receiving treatment etc.

Essentially a universal basic income with protected elements. It could be rolled out across the population so no-one feels that others are freeloading. It would only really be an extension of the personal allowance, but repackaged as a hand out to every tax payer makes it seem more palatable, doesn’t it?

Currently there’s a million different ways to receive money from the state, each one costly to maintain and administer. The same is true for the ways the state takes money in the form of taxes. That’s a waste of money.

you may think it is shameful, but I think it is entirely sensible. Let’s say you earn £200k a year. You pay 45% in income tax (£90k), plus council tax, vat, fuel duty, car duty and insurance premium tax etc. There is great inequality, but I’d say I am definitely paying my way and contributing towards a fairer society? I am likely to be a net contributor to society and may also be saving the government a per pounds with private healthcare and schooling. If you start upping income to 55% plus all those pesky extras I start to think why the heck am I working? It isn’t “a few hundred quid”, but £20k. And it will likely be wasted by the government anyway on vanity projects like helping developing countries with climate change to the tune of £12bn a year - nice to do if we have spare cash, but I’d prefer to spend it on children’s education in the UK, especially as China negates anything we do there.

I will not leave just due to the tax.
I will leave because the all around high taxation will drive growth down and run the country into the ground eventually.
I will leave because I don't want my chlden to grow up in a country where aspiration is looked down upon and social mobility is considered a zero sum game.
I will leave because the people are polarised into tribes and fighting a tribal war without rational thought. All in the name of building a fairer, more civilised society.
I will leave because I do not think any amount of taxes coming from the salaried class will fix the bloated inefficient public services.
I will leave because I have would have tried both parties and realised they serve the same masters.
You,however, betray your privilege when you think the UK is entirely welcoming to migrants and that the people with options to move globally must be rich and white.

Considering the mass hysteria on MN, the FTSE is almost at a record high, so the markets don’t seem to be too concerned that we’re on the verge of a financial apocalypse.

@Rp735

If you think I think the U.K. is welcoming to migrants, you betray your lack of reading comprehension in favour of a puffed up justification for ‘I want to be alright Jack’.

The majority of people talking about leaving the U.K. due to fear of fair taxation ARE predominantly white and/or rich, relative to the average earner in this country.

The lack of self awareness to scold me on my privilege would be laughable were it not so depressingly indicative of why Labour are needing to find money to fill a gaping Tory inflicted, ‘rich good, poor bad’ hole in public finances.

Whilst i'm disappointed, so far, with Labour, its far too early to say, Parliament isn't even sitting and hasn't been since the Election.

My point is QA generated 100s of billions and where did that money end up?
It wasn't used to improve public services or reduce borrowing, it went into the hands of the super rich, yet we are the ones expected to fund it

Where’s that? The UAE?

I wasn’t necessarily happier living under Tories - they have kept increasing my tax burden and the whole Brexit is a shambles. PPE I am not fussed about - corruption and incompetence has always existed and will continue to exist and Tories help out their Erin mates, Labour is in the pocket of the unions. Same thing really. But my financial roadmap under Tories was plannable - ok, they took away CGT allowance but the rate is still ok, they left carried interest well alone, they weren’t talking about raiding pensions, they made it possibly to fully control my pension pot and having to buy an annuity, inheritance tax was a pain but on balance I weighed costs and benefits and continued to live here. But Labour is something else - I simply won’t pay CGT at an income tax rate, it fucks up my retirement plans. And if on top of that they raid my pension and increase inheritance tax, no attraction if liv in g in London is worth it for me.

and I think you overrate the issues with emigration - a good chunk of top 1% are not British anyway so can easily go to any EU country. I mean half of London’s PE and banking crowd are European anyway. And countries like Singapore and UAE really don’t care. Yes, it’s hot and autocratic there, but enough is enough.

Watching wealthy people blame poor people for their apparent woes is really my favourite mumsnet pastime. What a bin fire of self indulgence this thread is.

All of you poor top rate tax payers with your private schools and and your enormous mortgages (that you chose to have) however will you survive. It’s just so desperately sad for you all.

Such bile. Or more likely jealousy. I am so desperately sad for you.

I paid £65k into the public pot last year, it will be similar this year. What was your contribution?