October budget going to be painful

[increasinglyconcerned]

Here we go..... I knew it. Labour were promising not to hike our taxes in the election campaign and here we are.... apparently they discovered £22 billion black hole in his first weeks in the role and it's not his fault.

Let me guess, those of us who earn six figures and already pay 45% will pay EVEN more and take home even less. It's the hard workers who will take the brunt. What's the point in working anymore!

I earn a little over £120k and I'm taxed the same as those earrings £500k.

Before people jump in saying they don't feel sorry for me, I work full time to support my family, as of January I will have 2 DCs in nursery, plus my mortgage and get ZERO free hours childcare, whilst they keep promising free childcare but I just pay more for everyone else to benefit.

I cannot afford to pay more taxes to fix this country and especially when so many people are getting a free ride and not paying their way, ranging from millionaires with tax havens to those claiming benefits dishonestly.

The amount we pay out in welfare is a massive issue. This is why it baffles me when people say benefits/benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean. It’s really not.

"How can this be that we spend almost 20% of out taxes on NHS and still have such appalling service? isn't this obvious that the issue is not funding but the way it's being managed?"

There's some issues with management, yes, but the NHS doesn't deliver 'appalling service'.

"Is everyone happy with 20% of their taxes going to welfare? this doesn't include state pensions."

This 'welfare' is predominantly wage top-ups for the working poor, who don't earn a living wage. If you want this benefit bill to reduce we need to legislate in a proper living wage, so that parents don't need universal credit to cover their basic needs of their household.

I don’t care if you listen to me or not. Just don’t start dissing Labour’s fiscal, management when the Tories couldn’t even make their own ideological austerity work.

What exactly do you think Covid was? It was a global financial black hole. No political party was going to come out the other side of that without incurring massive debt

You are very keen to raise Labour's challenge by the Great Recession - valid - yet make no mention in your post with background chart of the Conservative's challenge from Covid. The government support there was hardly austerity. It saved many small businesses and their employees from insolvency and bankruptcy.

But your posting history only follows one line. Always only follows one line. No objectivity at all.

You are a shining example of political polarisation today.

Exactly a pandemic will do that.

A financial crisis is linked to risk exposure and the size of the FS anyway, both of which were large

The national debt was on an upward trajectory from 2010, long before Covid. There was a government policy of austerity for ten years before Covid hit, allegedly to pay off the national debt, yet it just went up year on year. Sorry the facts are so inconvenient.

Maybe things will improve but it really hasn't been a strong start

Debt will always go up; that’s because there was a deficit. The deficit was reducing. The deficit had to be reduced before the debt. As it is we are still in deficit as it was monumental and then Covid. That means we are borrowing to pay our outgoings still. Common mistake that - not understanding the difference between debt and deficit. To wipe out the deficit all welfare would need to stop over night.

I totally agree with you OP. The Conservatives are being blamed unfairly imo for the 22 million black hole. A lot was down to furlough in the pandemic which most people were only too happy to take.Labour has given huge pay rises to public sector workers and expect us to pay for it through increased taxes. At the same time many old folk won’t dare to put the heating on this winter. I am dreading this budget. It strikes me that working hard and ‘doing the right thing’ is a waste of time in this country. Anything you save will just get taken off you.I know people who choose to limit the amount of work they do because doing more will lose them their benefits.No wonder so many wealth creators are planning to leave.

@taxguru The stats for the country show most pensioners vote Tory. Of course, there will be areas where the opposite is true, but for the country as whole, my point is supported by the statistical evidence.

46% of over 70s voted Tory against 20% of over 70s voted Labour.

How is 46% of pensioners 'most pensioners '? These figures show that 54% (ie most) pensioners did not vote Tory.

The Conservatives are being blamed unfairly imo for the 22 million black hole. A lot was down to furlough in the pandemic

And which political party introduced furlough?

Would you have preferred no furlough? ie keep everything running as usual

The voting intention showed 40% of over 65s intended voting Tory. The age at which people turn right now stands at 70 - and some of us never will.

Again you start at 2010. Which is when the Tory/ Lib Dem coalition came to power. You conveniently - to suit your polarised 'die hard' Labour narrative - omit the £1 trillion deficit that Labour left.

It is much more nuanced than that of course. No party who has been in Government since 1997 has clean hands. That is the inconvenient truth over which you are always in denial. Like a scratched record.

I will always hold my government to account.

So very true. It simply is not sustainable.

I think furlough was overused in some cases, and probably went on slightly too long.

I just think it’s disingenuous to say “it’s not the Tories” when at the same time saying it was caused by one of their policies.

The welfare bill has to fall. It is inevitable.

Regardless of whose fault it is.

Just look at the chart. And think about what it shows rather than your next insult. I agreed that there was £1 trillion debt in 1997 but it went up over the next ten years when we were all tightening our belts allegedly to pay it off - what went wrong?

The huge and growing welfare state.

No, doesn’t wash. Most benefits are in work benefits. The Tories had a decade before Covid to make employers pay workers properly so those benefits weren’t needed. They didn’t.

I don't recall much against it from various posters in fact as someone who said it was too much and too long there was loads of backlash

Public demand for incurring that debt was incredibly high and mn has the real time postings to show who and how people wanted more regardless of the cost

When Labour fail to turn it around and the deficit increases over the next few years you will say "But Labour inherited an enormous black hole and it's going to take years to turn it around - blame the Conservatives".

But when you hold your chart up and say "Look at what happened from May 2010 when the Conservatives came to power", you come across as a die hard.

If you follow the same old line, with no objectivity - and therefore no balance - I will always put you in the same political camp as Farage.

Tough if that irks you.

Amuses rather than irks. Do you really think I give a stuff what some random on the internet thinks of me? 😂

Yes, you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be engaging.