To agree with this article about issues with the NCT and their focus on ‘natural births’

[Edenspirits73]

My experiences with the NCT were toxic - I had a forceps delivery, episiotomy and all the pain relief including an epidural with my first child. I also struggled to breast feed and had to bottle feed after 3 weeks of endless trying and feeling awful.

NCT made me feel like a failure in every sense because I couldn’t breast feed and had a medical intervention. As it happens, my second baby was the polar opposite - fast natural birth, no drugs, breast fed. But the scars of ‘failure’ and how terrible they made me feel stayed with me.

I think they are quite toxic and women should never be made to feel bad for their birth experiences.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/aug/27/women-feel-like-failures-if-they-havent-had-a-normal-birth-how-the-nct-has-shaped-childbirth-in-the-uk

Yes, it’s not cheap. I mentioned this briefly in my post but I think as a result the current middle class bugbears of the day are probably over-represented as a result.

After I had my emergency caesarean, I was asked to talk to a group of expectant mums to tell them of my experience, and allay any fears they might have. No one was giving any indication that anything other than a totally natural drug free birth was a failure.

I attended NCT classes in 2018. Although the focus was on natural birth, medical interventions such as c-section were discussed. There was no demonisation of it at all.

Good thing really as 5 out of the 8 of us had c-sections! Two planned and three emergency.

Personally I felt very safe in Liverpool Womens, surrounded by intervention if needed. The thought of attempting birth in my home was appalling, quite frankly. My brother was born at home and my Dad begged me not to consider it- not what my parents had planned but in 1970 home birth was routine for second birth after safe first delivery. Only this second birth turned out not to be safe and my mum had a very hard time.

The simple fact is that in earlier generations death in childbirth was common. It is very dangerous to forget that, and to preach that a water birth with candles and music will be great. It will be for some- but for others it will be very ill-advised, and until you go into labour you can’t be certain which group you’ll be in.

I hope that NCT classes have improved significantly since the ones I heard about in the late 90s, but if they are still pushing a ‘resist medical intervention’ line then I would avoid them like the plague.

Most midwives I know plan homebirths. Of course not all, and it also depends on their risk factors.

I completely agree with you in regards to our own professional experiences shaping our own personal choices. I am a midwife and would stay away from LW for as long as I possibly could (if ever) as a labouring woman, but again that would depend on my risk factors and how my labour was progressing.

It is scary how much damage incorrect information can be, be that from NCT/similar, another professional, social media etc etc.

NCT are a nightmare, I say that as a professional btw.
They cause so many issues with women feeling a failure then the groups lead to competitive parenting.
I often have to deal with the fall out with a mother in tears over some issue stemming from an NCT group chat.

If you find a friendly supportive group fabulous but please don't then go and play mean girl games.

It's v variable between areas, obviously the more liberal classes only result in people saying "pls can I have an epidural" and me doing it... but there's a heck of a lot of women that I've had crying their eyes out totally inconsolable, no chance of getting to fully in their current state as minimally dilated in agony, where me and the midwife have spent a good 45mins saying no you won't get paralysed, no you haven't failed to want pain relief, no you aren't guaranteed to have a csection and never be able to breast feed etc efc

Yep I mean I'd stay at home as long as possible too, but I'd never deliver at home (well I'd probably adopt anyway) .... that and I was a prem jaundice PET baby and my brother was a PET cat1 prolonged cpr at birth ... so I don't have the best of family history 😂

My experience is entirely different. Groups in this, as in all thibgs, varies.

Exactly this. 5 years ago for my firstborn and the NCT was great and covered all birth types. There was someone having twins in my group who knew they were having a c-section and there was no judgement whatsoever. I ended up with an emergency section and was very grateful for the run through we did in the NCT antenatal classes as I wasn’t worried by the number of people in the room.

Exactly this for me too! 20 years ago.
All throught the class on c-sections I remember think 'ah but this won't be me'....Obviously it was! I was v grateful for what we'd learned.
The focus on breastfeeding in hindsight wasn't great as I felt like it was my only option. It took my mum dragging me to Mothercare for bottles and formula to change our lives with our DD.

5 and a half years ago and we only went because our friends had specifically recommended the class teacher: we wouldn't have gone otherwise. It was really helpful, especially for my partner who didn't have many of the basics down about dressing/washing/holding etc., and was clear and fairly scientific. We didn't have a role play but we did have a session with pictures of the different bits of the hospital, etc.,

The breastfeeding lady was terrible though: if you got your partner to do one feed in the night ever, your boobs would remember and the next time your baby wouldn't be able to eat. I think a third of the group complained.

Most of us went on the do baby massage with the tutor, which was fab

I remember the c-section role play as very pointedly trying to put us off it. It was very much, "look how many strangers would be in the room if you have a c-section." I really resented the values-driven, fear-laden position around c-sections (as though reducing them would be a good thing), while minimising the very real risks of vaginal birth (e.g. urinary and faecal incontinence).

I remember everyone in my NCT group wincing when they handed the epidural needle around, as a nurse I'd done a maternity placement in my training and remembered it well. I said to them all most women want to kiss the anaesthetist afterwards, there's a very good reason for that.

My first child I was induced for PROM I knew the odds were against me, battled it out for a bit then requested an epidural when I knew I couldn't cope with the induction process anymore. As you say that was not 'informed consent' I'd have signed anything at that point. My husband nearly fainted I was gripping him so tightly to try to stay still. I then itched like mad and thought I was having an allergic reaction until husband pointed out that possible side effect was on the consent form - that I had been incapable of understanding.

I remember a pitying look from NCT friend who was still pregnant oh you had to have an epidural (before their not to plan birth involving an ambulance and epidural).

When the NCT heard about our births we weren't invited back to talk to the next group. They chose the one person with the most uncomplicated birth who said it was no more painful than getting your ears pierced.

I also found in interesting that second child would have been a text book NCT birth, fast, gas and air only. They'd have invited me back to talk about that.

That was my experience of the c-section role play as well, very much look "how medicalised it will be". I ended up with a very medicalised induction followed by a c-section and the nct role play made the whole thing feel inevitable and really didn't help (another mother in my class had a similar experience). It was over a decade ago now however. Breastfeeding consultant was very much if you use bottles or nipple shields at all you won't be able to carry on breastfeeding which wasn't my experience with either of my children that I did breastfeed.

On the plus side I did like my consultant, it meant I got some antenatal classes (as I couldn't get on nhs ones) and it did help with social side for first year (as I went back to work full time I didn't keep in touch with most bar Facebook but I know some of the others stayed friends).

It's a shame that free/cheaper classes aren't more accessible. Nct aren't cheap and we were fortunate to afford them.

I agree. Though it kuat depend on the individual group leader.

I remember the stories of women who'd been permanently disabled by their epidural, and the explanations of further intervention if we had one. Ans the comments about how easy breastfeeding was as long as the position was right.

But mostly the main message seemed to be that if you could be nice and calm in your head, you'd have a good birth. I still feel like my extra long labours and complicated births with every form of pain relief were due to my inability to calm my own mind.

I didn’t really feel that about NCT but to be honest I went to meet people, and took a lot of the advice with a pinch of salt. I had a terrible milk supply and it was the lactation consultants and breastfeeding peer “supporters” who made me feel a failure for “not trying hard enough”

Same. Perhaps they’ve taken on some of the feedback?

I did NCT a few weeks ago and it was great. Really balanced. I felt no judgement from anyone on the course or the course leaders that I had an ELCS booked. We covered all pain relief neutrally and whilst I personally thought an epidural sounds horrible and an almost-certain route to intervention, several couples came away from that same content thinking it sounded great and they’d be asking for one.

The infant feeding covered breast and formula feeding equally. The only thing I would say is it made formula feeding look like a right faff, which objectively it is if you properly follow NHS advice and don’t use prep machines or make up bottles in advance and store them in the fridge (but the course leader did say that people still do this and your appetite for risk will be different with a full-term baby at 3 months old compared to if you were formula feeding a newborn premature baby who has just left the NICU).
Our feeding session was ran by a different course leader who was a breastfeeding counsellor and former midwife. She now lets us WhatsApp and phone her with any questions. I’ve already made use of that by asking her about a second-hand breast pump I’d been offered.

I did go into the course a bit sceptical based on stories I’d heard like in the OP. However, I think things seem like they have changed and I had a great experience. We booked it 50/50 for the info and for the meeting similar people who lived locally aspect.

We bought the Positive Birth Company course as well and I’d imagine that’s far more problematic than NCT. It felt like one big (unprofessionally recorded) toxic positivity session. I had to turn it off. Birth isn’t fairy lights and a romantic experience. Nobody at my NCT mentioned breathing the baby out. Its nature and nature can be brutal at times.

(edited for typos!)

Too much pressure to breastfeed, IMHO

NCT ain't free! Was quite pricey when I went 25 years ago.

The free classes run by the local hospital were much more informative and supportive at the time.

I remember going to an NCT session late in my pregnancy just after a midwife appointment where I had been referred to the consultant to discuss possible caesarean as the baby was firmly in breech position and considered unlikely to move. The course leader was heavily pressuring me to insist on a vaginal breech delivery and even rang a private obstetrician she knew who specialised in breech deliveries to make me an appointment! I shut that nonsense down quickly but how dangerous and irresponsible of her!

Luckily DD turned around just before delivery so the caesarean wasn't necessary.

The NCT are in a difficult position IMO. Women are all very different so what they want and need from ante natal education will be equally different and it would be impossible to cater to all perfectly. They have to balance what they believe to be best for mothers and babies with what is realistically achievable on the NHS and maybe that’s something they struggle with. I don’t think they’d be doing a good job if they terrified all women into believing that childbirth likely to need medical intervention or if they did less to promote and support breastfeeding.

I was lucky enough to have free NHS classes but considering the wide variety of birth experiences we ended up having, I don’t think it would have been possible for them to extensively prepare us for all of them.

My teacher went through everything in class but it was very clear that I was a disappointment in the post-course meet up. I had all the intervention, was formula feeding and she really made me feel like a failure while absolutely gushing over the only one of us who had a water birth/no drugs. As it turns out though that lady was badly damaged internally and requested c sections for her other births….

I love my Nct friends but I do question a bit of the ideology that still runs through some of the teaching staff. I went to a refresher with a different provider with my second that was much better than the Nct content. It was really clear on all the different options with no implied judgement at all.

Oh my god, same here and I thought I was alone. It was 26 years ago! I had pre-eclampsia and a placental abruption, and my son came 2 weeks early. I ended up having him delivered by general anaesthetic and came home traumatised by the whole experience, after being told by the consultant I was lucky to be alive! I phoned the NCT co-ordinator to say I wouldn’t be starting the course as I had had my baby already. She then told me, without any knowledge of me or my medical history that pre-eclampsia was most likely caused by my diet (!). I felt awful, even though my diet was perfectly normal. I spoke to my GP, and she was furious, told me to ignore it.

For an organisation that is set up to support women, I felt dreadfully let down when I was at my most vulnerable.

Totally agree, I had my first baby at 21 and was told by the local NCT I was not welcome and wrong because I had decided on an epidural so I didn't go. I had very strong feelings on how I wanted my birth to be.
I actually had a very nice relaxed birth with my epidural with no pain. But I had to fight every step of the way to get it.
Back then in the 80's you were not considered a proper woman unless you went through it naturally no matter how awful it was.
I think women should decide for themselves and not be pressured into natural births if they don't want them. Both siblings opted for C sections and were very pleased with their decisions.

I got Absolutely hated my NCT experience. I made one friend and that's the only thing that came out of it.

I sent a full complaint afterwards. I thought NCT meant helping parents prepare for a birth.

I wanted to know how to make a bottle, how to Bath the baby, how to change a nappy etc.

I got breast feeding 'lactate-avist' woman who make me feel sick and anxious.

I spent weeks crying after the birth because I couldn't breast feed (DD wouldn't latch despite every man and his dog having a go). On the plus side the NHS did an amazing course. NCT was a total was of £140