Over reacting or concerning?

[sussexsquirrel]

Ds is 23 and stepbrother to dd 8.
Ds goes into dd bedroom sometimes after we have gone to bed, dd is not a good sleeper so is usually still awake or in the few occasions we go out leaving him looking after her he will get into her bed and tightly cuddles her, she asks him to stop and he doesn't until she asks again and then he stops and she's said she doesn't want him in her room or to be left looking after her because she doesn't like it.
I asked her if he has touched her anywhere and she says no just tight cuddles that she doesn't like.
I have spoken to ds and forbidden him from going in her room ever but he didn't listen the first time and still went in she now tells us so I have had another firm talk with him and insisted he never enter her room and dd to tell me if he does even if we're asleep and I hope this time it's gone in.

I'm not sure what to make of the situation as she says he's never tried touching her or anything but it doesn't sit right a grown man getting into bed with an 8yo and bear hugging her when nobody is around.
Am I reading too much into this or would you be concerned?
Would you be asking him to leave?
We've made it crystal clear he's never to go into her room under any circumstances and won't be asking him to look after her anymore.
I just wish I knew what was behind this. Is it just big brother being annoying and bear hugging his sister or is something seriously not right?

Ds goes into dd bedroom sometimes after we have gone to bed Absolutely categorically not OK, unless she has specifically asked him to come in - and given the age difference and the relationship and the context you've given here, I would worry that she might not have done this of her own free will.

... dd is not a good sleeper so is usually still awake ... Usually? So, OK, she's not inviting him in. He can't go in. Full stop.

... he will get into her bed and tightly cuddles her ... WHY ???!!! ... she asks him to stop and he doesn't... Oh, No way. NO WAY. Don't leave the two of them alone together. And absolutely don't leave him "in charge" of her.

... she's said she doesn't want him in her room or to be left looking after her because she doesn't like it. There's your answer; how is there even a question?

Edited to add: just saw you said he'll be leaving. Good move; I think that's the only way to keep her safe. Just be careful he doesn't retaliate against her in some way, either before he moves out or after.

Usually I give the benefit of the doubt, but this sounds very dodgy and I agree with PP, he needs to leave. Make it about something else if needed

Has he said why he does this?? Something is very wrong. I'm glad you are making him leave. What a scary situation for dd. You are doing the right thing.

I'm glad he's leaving. Your daughter has a right to feel safe in her own home and that has to be your priority.

His behaviour is very concerning. What really alarms me is that any innocent man would be mortified if they were told to stop interacting with a child in a certain because it looked suspicious but your son persisted. I think he would be a danger to other children and I don't know what you do about that or who you can contact for advice.

I’d be curious about what material he’s viewing online. This behaviour doesn’t arise in a vacuum. There’s an epidemic of young men in particular who in the past may not have had any interest in deviant behaviour with children (and this is exactly what this is) who end up going down this path because of online material.

As well as the risk to your daughter police and CEOPS could show up at your door. It can’t be dressed up and swept under the rug, have a blunt conversation with your husband and tell the SS to go.

I'm not sure where the best place is to start with help either, but NSPCC will be able to refer to social services, who will be able to support the daughter and mum.

This is not normal.
Why is the family claming you are overeacting, christ thats a major concern.
Once he is gone what happens if he tries to apporach her still.
Do not enable her to be a target for this creep.
He needs help.
Dd needs trusting healthy relstionships knowing this is not ok ever.
Sick

Does your daughter know the correct terminology for her genitalia? Does she know about the Pants rule?

He must leave immediately. Even if it's not sexual it's unwanted physical contact.

Well done for dealing with this OP.

Your poor daughter.

As someone raped repeatedly by my brother from the age of 8 to about 14, the son has to leave now - you know he is behaving inappropriately and you allow it to keep happening even if it is only 'cuddling' (which I doubt)
Personally I'd seek help from either a charity working in this area or social services, who may be able to talk with your daughter more honestly, and have appropriate questions to elicit the truth of what is going on. And possibly investigate whether you son needs charging or treatment - turfing him out to prey on other young girls is equally inappropriate, even if your biggest duty of care is to your daughter. Even if he is not a paedophile, he clearly doesn't have any idea about consent.

As an adult I felt as much or possibly more hate and anger towards my parents for allowing it to happen.

What is the pants rule please?

WTF did he say when you asked why he'd ignored your first instruction not to get into your child's bed?

If he doesn't move out today, can you bring her into your bed at night until he does?

This is really concerning! His behaviour from start to finish has been disgusting and I'd be questioning whether more has happened to make her upset , and whether this is why she can't sleep well? Presumably he has been in her life for a while? She may not have words or knowledge to express her experiences.

It could all be innocent but he is not respecting your daughters boundaries (or yours) so he needs to leave. You need to teach them both that it's not acceptable.

I agree he needs to go. Surely he knows he is being creepy, even if it’s innocent. It’s just plain weird behaviour. What justification does he give for doing it?
When I was around your DDs age my best friend had an older half brother (about 20 years old) and he chased me upstairs, lay on me and held my hands against the bed. He didn’t touch me beyond that, but I still remember it now nearly 40 years on and look back and think how creepy it was and wonder whether I was just lucky he didn’t do anything else.
Your DD will remember it like me. Make sure your part in the memory is her remembering you protecting her from him. Kick him out.

Did he leave then?

A 23 year old man got in bed with your 8 year old daughter. Because he wanted to.

That was the moment you should have shown him the door.

He didn't get off when asked and repeated the behaviour. Disgusting.

I wonder if she's mentioned it to anyone at school.

Exactly this! Please take note OP.

You can call social services or the nspcc for guidence
If family suggest you are overreacting you could mention you were seeking external advice.