Why super fast trials for some but not for others?

[NoProblems]

There have been super fast trials and sentencing for the recent anti-immigrant rioters, rightly so.

Why can't there be equally super fast trials for Huw Edwards and those like him?

Why not for those who attacked police officers at Manchester airport?

Why not for the police officer who was caught kicking a man lying on the ground?

The facts have or should have already been gathered, so what are they waiting for?

I don't want to get into long discussions or arguments, but I think once a person has been arrested, they should be charged and tried fairly quickly, and there should be no queue jumping in trials.

Huw Edwards should have been tried and charged/acquitted a long time ago.

AIBU?

I should have said charged and sentenced or acquitted a long time ago.

Yes everyone should have the right to justice in a timely
manner.

You will have seen the well-publicised cuts to the criminal justice system in the past 14 years that have meant that many trials have faced delay after delay. Have you ever raised that publicly, or with your MP? Or is it just now that racist are before the courts that it’s become an issue for you?

Nobody involved in the riots has yet faced a trial. All those sentenced have pleaded guilty. If you plead guilty you can expect to see your case concluded much, much more quickly than if you need a trial. The delays are mostly in fitting trials into crown courts because of the huge backlogs.

Courts, court dates....all differ... so many variables

Always been that way

I was under the impression that they had pleaded guilty?

A drink driver in our local area has had a similarly fast outcome (they took out an electricity substation so it was big deal locally)

What @WingSluts says.
The super fast sentencing is of people who have pleaded guilty, so no trial required. There’s no queue jumping. Trials take a long time because like everything else post Tory government there’s a long waiting list.

Huw Edwards had already pleaded guilty. They are awaiting reports before he can be sentenced. These can take many months, again because of the backlogs in the criminal justice system and appointing medics and probation officers (those pesky cuts again) to write them.

There aren't the resources for super quick trials for everyone.

Some cases are more complicated than others.

op.....who has 'queue jumped' a trial??

You sound like you don’t really understand what you’re talking about at all.

You can’t be sentenced until you either plead guilty or are found guilty.

Quite.

They pled guilty - no trial you just move to sentencing - those who didn;t plead guilty will have a trial - but I think you know that.

I think the courts have been doing a lot of overtime well into the night as well

Worked though.....the riots appeared to have suddenly stopped!

As others have said those sentence so far have admitted guilt so haven’t been through trials only sentencing. There’s also an element that the speed of the arrests and sentencing was part of the strategy to stop the riots in the same way that it was a strategy in the 2011 riots. Dealing with rioting that is spreading across the country is different to dealing with individual crimes which aren’t spreading in the same way. Even drunken idiots will think twice before deliberately going to a riot once they’ve seen they will get a 2 year sentence and the courts mean it.

The pitiful state of the justice system at the moment is a whole different kettle of fish and it has been on the verge of the collapse (literally in the case of quite a few court buildings) for a while. Turns out it’s a bad idea for successive governments to be ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’ if you aren’t going to build more prison cells. You can’t have a trial if there are no cells to put people in if they are found guilty.

They didn't have a trial. They pled guilty then were sentenced. It takes a while to build a case if someone pleads not guilty.

Swift sentencing post guilty plea isn't surprising or unusual. But the CPS having all the evidence (witness statements and exhibits) gathered and served on the defence in time for the first hearing is. That's the bit that can take months post charge and has been very impressively expedited in these cases. If only in every case......

Which of the rioters have been to trial so fast then?

They have been sped through as a deterrent. The justice system is largely about deterrence of future crime, and in this situation a quick reminder of the outcome of rioting was needed.

Much like when one child is sent to the headmasters office at school, the rest of the class will generally settle down. Its basic human behaviour.

@Merryoldgoat where did I say the rioters had been tried so fast? CPS still need to serve their case - or at least the bones of it - on the defence before a plea would generally be entered. So yes it's impressively fast (in my view as a criminal defence solicitor)

The rioters can be dealt with quickly because they're pleading guilty so no trial needed, the hearing can be magistrates not crown court due to the offences committed, and none of the ones who've been sentenced so far have needed or wanted to adduce specialist reports.

Bear in mind that if there are rioters who are pleading not guilty therefore go to trial, we won't have seen them yet. The fact that some cases are straightforward guilty pleas magistrate jobs doesn't tell us anything about how many aren't.

Sorry I misunderstood you with - I am getting frustrated with all of the posters who think the trials have been rushed through for some kind of nefarious means and didn’t read your post properly.

Apologies.

The area you are in will make a difference. Some areas have more of a backlog than others.

But the biggest factor is you are incorrect OP when you speak of fast trials for these rioters. None of the ones sentenced have had a trial. The few that have pleaded not guilty and have gone off for trial will take months to get a listing.

Public order offences do not require much investigation The police have the body cam or CCTV and away they go. Child pornography or sex offences or fraud generally require more time as the investigation is more complex.

If there are a range of possible sentences or mental health problems or other complex personal factors to consider the Judge will usually adjourn for a pre sentence report. That also takes time. No-one is queue jumping. Different scenarios call for different approaches.

Thank you for the responses. To reply to some of them:

"They pled guilty - no trial you just move to sentencing - those who didn;t plead guilty will have a trial - but I think you know that."

"Huw Edwards had already pleaded guilty. They are awaiting reports before he can be sentenced. These can take many months, again because of the backlogs in the criminal justice system and appointing medics and probation officers (those pesky cuts again) to write them."

"The super fast sentencing is of people who have pleaded guilty, so no trial required. There’s no queue jumping."

So why didn't they just move to sentencing Huw Edwards if he had already pleaded guilty?

Did they not wait for any reports for the anti-immigrant rioters? Why did it not take months? Where did all the backlogs go to? Obviously there was queue jumping.

"You sound like you don’t really understand what you’re talking about at all.

You can’t be sentenced until you either plead guilty or are found guilty."

Does that not mean exactly the same thing as what I wrote?

Charged, then sentenced if found guilty, acquitted if found innocent?

"They have been sped through as a deterrent. The justice system is largely about deterrence of future crime, and in this situation a quick reminder of the outcome of rioting was needed."

I don't have any problem with that.

But what about deterrence of future crimes like those of Huw Edwards, especially considering that he worked for the BBC?

What about deterrence of future crimes like those who kicked policemen at Manchester Airport?

What about deterrence of future crimes like the policeman who kicked a man lying on the ground at Manchester Airport?

"But the biggest factor is you are incorrect OP when you speak of fast trials for these rioters. None of the ones sentenced have had a trial. The few that have pleaded not guilty and have gone off for trial will take months to get a listing."

I haven't heard any mention of a rioter who has pleaded not guilty. Do you have any links?

"op.....who has 'queue jumped' a trial??"

The persons who attacked policemen at Manchester Airport and the policeman who hit the person lying on the ground should have been tried and sentenced first.

That event happened before the anti-immigrant riots. Everything was captured on camera, just like the anti-immigrant trials.

But those crimes have been pushed back from facing justice.

"Or is it just now that racist are before the courts that it’s become an issue for you?"

I have no problem with criminals, racists or not, being sentenced in accordance with the law, the sooner the better.

My issue is that those like Huw Edwards can play the system because they are smart, rich and have friends in high places, unlike the anti-immigrant rioters who made no excuses and pleaded guilty when caught.

Is Huw Edwards under any restrictions or is he roaming free and enjoying life?

What about the persons who attacked the policemen?

What about the policeman who kicked the person lying on the ground?

The Huw Edwards case and the reports necessary before sentencing can take place is a bit more complicated than the rioters who've been sentenced.