Delivery driver motorbike/ebike driving standards should be far more thoroughly policed

[LargeDeviation]

Over the last week, I have seen:

1. A delivery driver turn right from a main road into a side street from the wrong side of the road, almost crashing into a car turning left from the side street
2. Numerous delivery drivers driving on the wrong side of the main road, forcing oncoming traffic to slow down or even emergency brake
3. Constant undertaking by delivery drivers
4. Delivery motorbikes exceeding local 20mph/30mph speed limits by a factor of at least 2
5. An electric bike delivery man riding on the pavement whilst checking his phone and knocking into an elderly gentleman (who was fortunately OK). In general, a lot of ebikes ridden on the pavement
6. Delivery motorbikes taking up all the parking spaces in loading bays, ignoring all time limits

These are all in an area with large numbers of CCTV cameras, traffic cameras, etc. in London.

If examples were made of a few of these then driving standards amongst delivery motorbikes generally would improve. It would be an easy win for the police as well, the cases are so easy to prove. But it seems like the police and the politicians don't care.

I strongly suspect that many of the drivers don't have legal driving licences. Also, though it isn't immediately relevant to my main concern about driving standards, increased police enforcement/spot checks would also deter informal/under the table subcontracting of Uber Eats/Just Eat/Deliveroo etc accounts by illegal immigrants...

As a biker myself I couldn't agree more (these twats are not bikers but that's another issue)

I have, however, been stopped on the one way street out of our town that leads from where all the uber/ just eat riders do their pick ups

Anyone on two wheels was having their insurance checked

This was 6pm (early in the day for take away food) and they already confiscated two bikes

I was happy to be pulled (obvs let on my way quickly) as it shows the OB are taking action

You're not wrong but how?

Traffic Attendants at every corner 24/7?
Unlikely as the council's won't pay for that cost.

Cameras everywhere? No one to monitor them, everyone would moan about their "rights"

Neither of them will happen so basically there's no ramifications for poor driving standards, and they will just continue and get worse.

Simple law change- you cannot be paid for work using a vehicle if you do not have a full licence.

Though agreeing with your comment about too many people not caring about driving standards.

All the food delivery guys that I see are not on legal e-bikes, they’re on illegally modified bicycles. Legal e-bikes only give assistance when the rider is pedalling and stop offering assistance at 15.5 mph. The ones the delivery people use power the bike when the rider is not pedalling and can go at 30+ mph. For whatever reason, the police do absolutely nothing to stop these illegal bikes.

You are absolutely right.

My DD1 (now 29) was out with friends from work late at night hit by a delivery rider on an e-bike. This was on the footpath near Tottenham Court Road tube station so plenty of cctv would have been available. She was unconscious for a couple of minutes I understand. She had a broken front tooth and a nasty cut above her eye. Her friends took her to hospital in a taxi where she was (eventually) checked over, CT scanned, chest x-rayed, cleaned up and stitched. She got back to her house at about 4am and later that morning DH and I drove up to collect her for a few days.

It was reported to police (the Met, as it is London). They did nothing apart from give a crime number, despite Tottenham Court Road area being one of the most cctv rich areas in London and a pretty precise time being given by DD's friends and a couple of other members of the public who had seen it all from a bus stop.

Something needs to be done. E-bikes and the like are too dangerous to be ridden on footpaths. My DH does have one, but only rides it on the road. If he must take it onto the footpath (I e. to cross the footpath) he dismounts and walks with it.

@toomuchfaff I would have thought that with fines, the enforcement would be almost self-funded or even profitable in the short-term

@LlynTegid The problem isn't really a lack of laws. Everything I mentioned above is illegal. It is the lack of enforcement.

@worrisomeasset Good point. I think penalties for illegally modified e-bikes need to be much higher. Apart from road safety, there is also the increased fire risk from the dodgy batteries/chargers. I think licence plates and MOTs for e-bikes should be introduced.

@Topseyt123 That is awful. I hope your DD is OK.

A lot of the delivery drivers (van and bike) will be self employed so won't be liable to the usual "employment" checks such as right to work in the UK, driving licence, insurance, etc. They'll only get caught if the police stop them.

In other walks of life, the employer has the legal obligation to check they have legal right to work in the UK, have valid driving licences, the employer must have insurance etc., so the employer is liable for huge fines if they don't do the checks and don't have the right paperwork in place.

See the difference.

There's a reason why it's mostly self employed that are causing these problems - no one is checking them!

I agree. They're a menace. We have them "cycling" through our village on a main A road at 30+ mph not turning the pedal at all, just cruising on the electric motor. No helmets, often full face balaclavas, no way of identifying them, so CCTV is pointless. They just sail through red traffic lights, weave on and off the pavement when they feel like it, etc. Police cars just drive straight past, just ignoring them. Something definitely needs to be done.

@LargeDeviation She's fine now. It was about a year ago.

She took two or three weeks to feel and look more like herself and the broken front tooth will need more work done in the near future (will cost several hundred pounds too) but she's otherwise fully recovered.

I am surprised no politicians are talking about this.

It seems to me that it is an easily solvable problem without being too expensive (as traffic enforcement fines could bring in significant revenue).

The quickest solution would be to ban driving for hire on a provisional licence. Job done.

It's very dodgy. Around here they ALL have permanent L plates. For years. I've moaned to the police about them driving on pavements.
(I've never had a take away by the way).

I fear the "two tier" policing is in play here as the majority of delivery drivers don't appear to be of white British heritage.

Yep, same around here. They are basically motorbikes but being ridden on pavements and in cycle lanes. With no licence and no insurance. Got almost hit by one the other day - rider was checking his phone (presumably to see check delivery details) and just pulled right out without looking. A lot of them are under massive pressure to deliver as much as poss and as quickly as poss so there’s probably something to be done with the big employers (Uber, Deliveroo etc) as much as with the individual riders.

@SerendipityJane might be different in your area, but round here it’s modified e-bikes that are basically motorbikes. So the rider isn’t licensed or anything. Limited accountability or traceability as no licence plates or anything.

Ah, well, that's a slightly different problem. However if are employers paying these people to drive, then surely they can be held liable ? I mean if we can lock someone up for 2 years for a inciting tweet, then surely we can shutter a business using illegal equipment ?

I imagine the rider is self employed or something to avoid the big delivery companies having too much responsibility? But agree that could be the way to go - make the employers responsible and require insurance, other checks of equipment being used etc.

As you have identified, the subcontracting of the food deliveries is a massive problem. You can sign up so easily to be a delivery driver and then sub it out for whoever you want. This is a way to make money for an enormous amount of illegal immigrants who in turn become modern day slaves.

Well, like dangerous dogs and deadbeat dads, there clearly isn't the political will to deal with this. QED and all that.

@Grateeggspectations I guess I can understand why Labour aren't keen to tackle the issue (as they want to downplay the salience of illegal immigration as much as possible). Also, the Tories are generally distracted at the moment, and hindered by their incompetence in recent office.

It would be depressing if Reform were the only party with an incentive to actually speak out about this very real problem.

Yep agree - most of the e bikes I see aren’t legal.

There are also gangs of young teens on these illegal bikes stealing phones out of people’s hands. It was bad enough when they were on pedal bikes, but at 30mph it is actually really fucking dangerous.

Well you are so wrong there. To deliver for just eat Uber eats etc you need to prove insurance to deliver food, prove right to work , produce copy of driving licence etc So they are liable

And if you subcontract to someone without correct documents you can lose your account so not work yourself.

Have to do video check to make sure it's you or official dubcontacter working

Actually the best way to tackle it would be to allow people to work while their asylum claim is being heard (so they have no incentive to work illegally) and clear the backlog so the deportation process doesn’t take years. Ie the opposite of what Reform say they want.

Also the ones I see (via work) come here on flimsy student visas and then overstay/disappear - it isn’t people coming in on small boats.

The obvious issue is why is it possible to buy vehicles - electric bikes & scooters in particular that are not 'road legal'

That and irrespective of status delivery companies should be responsible irrespective of status with penalties for directors and senior managers if they are found not to be checking what there employees are up to

Think that is a relatively new thing - I know Deliveroo introduced it just after Easter, but have Just Eat and Uber Eats definitely introduced it already? Thought they “had plans to”….