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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this morally wrong?

76 replies

NotPicasso · 21/08/2024 10:36

I have an elderly family member. He lives about four hours away and no family live near him. His mental health is drastically declining and he’s now at a point where we have doctors/social services/police involved but he is refusing to move into a home, or closer to us. The big problem we have is that he is a wanderer, and will go missing for days so when we call to check, we can’t find him. When we visit, he often forgets we are due, and we will spend hours trying to find him in his local area. Last month he was missing for 8 hours and when he got home, he said he’d been in the supermarket (we had checked several times and didn’t find him in there). I’ve said I’d like to put an AirTag on his keys, so when he goes missing we can find him. He has no idea what it is, doesn’t have a mobile and doesn’t understand technology. He might consent to the tracking one day, but won’t remember the next. Would it be acceptable for me to put it on his keys anyway? He always takes his keys when he leaves, so I think it would be a good way to find him if he goes missing again?
obviously we are working to get the situation sorted, this is just a short term solution to try and keep him safe.

YANBU- track him
YABU- it’s violating his privacy and shouldn’t be done without him fully understanding and remembering it’s happening

OP posts:
Member869894 · 21/08/2024 10:38

I'm surprised you would even ask. No it's not morally wrong

Iggityziggety · 21/08/2024 10:38

I would do it. In this case I think keeping him safe trumps his privacy rights and it could save police time looking for him in future if you have some idea where he is.

MonsteraMama · 21/08/2024 10:40

I think in this case it's perfectly acceptable, you're doing it to keep him safe.

MissUltraViolet · 21/08/2024 10:41

I think you should do it, it will help to keep him safe.

KimberleyClark · 21/08/2024 10:42

YANBU - he is a danger to himself and not able to assess risk.

KeepinOn · 21/08/2024 10:50

I think his safety is paramount, but would he just take it off if it's an unfamiliar item on his keychain?

Octopies · 21/08/2024 10:50

I think it's fine as it's an in case of emergencies precaution. It's not like you're planning on sitting there tracking his movements 24/7. If he takes his wallet with him, maybe you could also put in a card with your contact details.

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 21/08/2024 10:50

The man clearly lacks mental capacity therefore decisions have to be made for him.

Track him. If nothing else think of the police resources you'll be saving if he went missing and a full-scale search operation had to be mounted.

LoobyDoop2 · 21/08/2024 10:54

It’s necessary to keep him safe, and he doesn’t have capacity to give informed consent.

Kingoftheroad · 21/08/2024 10:56

I am going through this with my Dad at the moment. Social Work are stalling at every opportunity. He lives alone, cant work the cooker etc. Installed a ring doorbell and he was out in his pj’s at 5am trying to smash it off.

He has gone through three sets of Carers.

He needs residential care and by the sounds of things so does your relative.

I found perfect accommodation for my Dad, which had spaces. SW refuse to authorise.

I feel for you - its soul destroying. Please put the tracker on

Allelbowsandtoes · 21/08/2024 10:56

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 21/08/2024 10:50

The man clearly lacks mental capacity therefore decisions have to be made for him.

Track him. If nothing else think of the police resources you'll be saving if he went missing and a full-scale search operation had to be mounted.

What are you basing that one, have you met with him to assess his capacity? And what decision specifically do you feel he likes capacity in regards to? People don't just lack capacity in every area.

Purplecatshopaholic · 21/08/2024 10:56

Do it. I totally would have done this with my mum if the tech had been readily available - would have saved a lot of heartache.

3within3 · 21/08/2024 10:59

Yes do it, your intentions are nothing but positive. But look into different types you can get, it doesn’t need to be an AirTag, there are many products designed specifically for this purpose and they are not all for key rings, some are quite discreet. Google tracking devices dementia. And have a look into battery life as you will need one that doesn’t need recharging frequently

Catza · 21/08/2024 11:07

Whether it is morally wrong depends on whether he has capacity to make decisions about this himself. Capacity needs to be assessed, at least informally. Does he understand what the tracker is, what are the benefits of having/not having it and risks of having/not having it, is he able to retain this information long enough to make an informed decision.
If he can't, you can make decision in his best interest, but this may need to be formalised with the agencies involved.

LycheeFizz · 21/08/2024 11:11

No moral issue at all for me.

This is to help and protect him so it's a great idea.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/08/2024 11:19

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I think it's important to think about this measure and weigh it up. It isn't as easy as 'safety trumps everything' for people who lack capacity. Do you believe, when he was of sound mind, he would have believed this was proportionate?

cosyleafcafe · 21/08/2024 11:20

I think he needs to have his capacity assessed to see whether he is capable of giving informed consent. You need to speak to social services.

unsync · 21/08/2024 11:20

Does he have capacity, and do you have Powers of Attorney in place?

Squidgysquiffle · 21/08/2024 11:26

Do it OP. I had an elderly relative that lived alone. We used to worry about them all.the time. Another family member wanted to install a camera in their hallway so we could check to see if there had been movement on days when they wouldn't answer the phone (which was often as they were quite deaf) without someone having to rush round - they then wouldn't hear the front door anyway.
We asked permission from the elderly relative who went ballistic and said they didn't want to be spied on - not like it was in the bedroom or bathroom or something. So we didn't install it.
This relative had a fall a year or so later and we didn't realise until they'd been on the floor for (we think) almost 24 hours. The relative subsequently died. It was awful.

SummerSplashing · 21/08/2024 11:27

I'd do it.

No I wouldn't piss around with assessments & SS approval.

id also be pushing hard for a care home near you.

Improbablywrong · 21/08/2024 11:28

I believe you need someone to agree to this, if he is unable to agree because he doesn’t have capacity then whoever has power of attorney needs to agree.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/08/2024 11:32

Squidgysquiffle · 21/08/2024 11:26

Do it OP. I had an elderly relative that lived alone. We used to worry about them all.the time. Another family member wanted to install a camera in their hallway so we could check to see if there had been movement on days when they wouldn't answer the phone (which was often as they were quite deaf) without someone having to rush round - they then wouldn't hear the front door anyway.
We asked permission from the elderly relative who went ballistic and said they didn't want to be spied on - not like it was in the bedroom or bathroom or something. So we didn't install it.
This relative had a fall a year or so later and we didn't realise until they'd been on the floor for (we think) almost 24 hours. The relative subsequently died. It was awful.

People are allowed to make decisions for themselves (if they have capacity), even when those decisions sometimes result in tragic results. I'm so sorry for your loss. Your relative would have been sorry to lose their feeling of independence and freedom.

It's very hard to see sometimes, and the consequences can be awful. But only in very specific circumstances (small children, dementia, serious MH issues) should we make decisions for others. And even then, we should take their wishes into account. And make sure we check their capacity at all times.

cupcaske123 · 21/08/2024 11:34

He isn't safe and needs residential care. What happens if he can't find his way home, can no longer negotiate traffic or freezes to death in the winter?

You need to arrange a mental capacity assessment with social services. Is there power of attorney in place? You can apply for Deputyship or SS will make a best interests decision regarding his care.

5128gap · 21/08/2024 11:45

Your relative is at a difficult stage. He has enough capacity to excercise his autonomy as to where he goes, for how long, and who he informs, to have the right to privacy and for his consent to be required for monitoring. Yet he has reached the point where he is potentially at risk. Unfortunately all you can really do at this stage is assess the risk with a sense of perspective. So far the worst that has happened is you have been anxious because you didn't know his whereabouts. But actually, he was perfectly fine. Had he not have been, and was in actual danger, by far the greatest likelihood is that someone would have noticed and called the police or an ambulance. Should this become a pattern the situation can be reassessed and a decision made as to whether he still has enough capacity to refuse restrictions or monitoring.
Its a very tough stage of a person's decline for relatives to negotiate, and very worrying, but ultimately mainly comes down to crossing each bridge as you come to it rather than thinking of the 'what ifs'.