To ask what you'd do with nursery?

[YouveGotAFastCar]

2.5-year-old DS has gone to nursery for a year now. He goes 2 days a week and has always liked it...

But for the past three months, he has not. Initially he cried about going, but then he stopped crying but would beg not to go in the morning. Nursery went through a phase of calling us to say he was sad and we should pick him up, then I had a chat to the manager (who knows him well) and the calls stopped, but they still say he hasn't had a good day. His potty training completely reverses when he's there, and they say he gets overwhelmed. He's totally different with me, very social and well-behaved, although we have bad evenings when he gets home and usually Thursday is a write-off because he's got so much tension left.

I've been pushing them for suggestions and the only thing they've come up with is to swap him from two full days to four mornings. That would mean we'd have to drop some of the activities that we do together, like forest school and one of two playgroups, because he'd be in nursery. Sadly afternoon sessions here are hard to come by...

I'm torn between trialling mornings, pushing through or taking him out completely. Even with funded hours, we're paying £475 a month for his two days, and he's so unhappy. I try to keep him there as little as possible, usually 9am - 3:30pm. He does go with three of his friends, but wouldn't have those on two of the mornings.

He's due a room change next week, but it's to a smaller room, so I'm not sure if that will help.

All thoughts welcome! Having him home would be challenging but doable, DH and I are both self-employed and make it work the rest of the time. My big concern is that we're on waiting lists for three other nurseries and the lists currently run until '26, so we'd be unlikely to get another space if we pulled him out.

Sorry to hear you're having a tough time. How verbal is your son? Can he articulate what's upsetting him?

Have you tried:

1. Letting him take a bear/special toy in, see if it helps comfort? I know nurseries don't love this though
2. The 'heart on hand' connection thing? I don't know if this has a proper name, but you sharpie a heart onto his hand, and one onto your hand, and tell him whenever he is feeling sad or misses you etc he presses the heart, and it connects you. And you will press your heart when you miss him too.
3. Taking a bit of a break? I know you said you're self employed so not sure what your annual leave situ is, but if you could take a week off, decompress, and see how he feels going back after that? It could make things worse I suppose

Other than the manager does he have a keyworker, or any other member of staff he is attached to?

Are there any particular children who might be upsetting him? My son was separated from another little boy for a while, they loved playing with each other but would then get 2yo frustrated and it would devolve into hitting and biting. They had some time apart in separate rooms and now are back to being fine with each other.

Does he need to go? As in do you work? I’m very pro pre-school
education but I think it depends if he’ll go to a different nursery as in school nursery at 3 or be staying in private until reception?

He’ll likely stay here until he’s 4, or at least that was the plan!

We can make it work that he doesn’t have to go. It’d mean working more evenings and it’d make life a bit harder but it’s doable, definitely.

I haven’t tried the sharpie heart, I’ll do that. He does take a special teddy, which he’ll sit and hold when he’s sad, but that’s so unlike my son. He’s so social and so very rarely sad with me. Nursery did suggest we took some of his favourite puzzles in but then worried that it’d cause fights…

He does have a keyworker who says she loves him, but she’s also quite stern and I’m not sure the feeling is mutual. He prefers another member of staff, but not enough to make him want to go. Hopefully he’ll like the staff in the next room a bit more…

His key worker told me last week that he was purposefully wetting himself if he was told off, but then said he wouldn’t talk at all, so he wouldn’t have been able to ask to go to the toilet.

Often one member of staff will say he’s had a rough day and someone else will say he’s fine, which is frustrating, but I really hate the idea that he’s miserable there 🙈

I had contemplated some time off. We’ve got a holiday booked in September, maybe that’ll help.

What are the age ranges in the rooms? My DS was in the 0-2 room for a bit too long (waiting for space in the 2-3s) and towards the end he got REALLY grumpy about going in. It may be that your son is very ready to move up and just doesn't know quite what's wrong or how to express it, especially if he's having to spend time with loads of pre-verbal toddlers and can see that the older children are doing more interesting stuff. Another friend said her DD was resisting nursery at the tail end of 2-3s but suddenly became much happier when she went into the preschool 3+ room.

That's not a bad shout. It should be 0 - 1, 1 - 2.5, 2.5 - 3, then preschool, but there wasn't room for him to move up from babies, so he spent a long time in Movers and has been in the current 1-2.5 room for about six months. He'll move to the 2.5 to 3 room in September, and then the preschool room in January.

They say he's happy if he's involved in an activity or they've given him a little job to do, but he's bored a lot and that makes him sad.

In that case, I wouldn't change anything until you see what happens with the change of rooms. In a way, your nursery's age bands look better than mine (small nursery!) because they're more specific, but actually the 1-2.5 is worse because in our 0-2 room the majority don't start till nearly 1 anyway, so it's pretty much 10 months to 2. Whereas 2.5-year-olds have way more in common with 3-year-olds than they do with 1-year-olds. In the 2.5 to 3 room everyone will be potty training too so he's more likely to be cooperative with that.

I agree with the above. If he’s there u to reception then you need to persevere, hopefully it’ll improve as he moves rooms.

If he’s moving rooms I’d definitely give him more time there. Not surprised he’s very bored and frustrated being with the little ones.

Whatever room he's in he shouldn't be bored because they should be planning activities to meet every child's needs it doesn't sound like they are doing their job properly. His keyworker should be doing this.

I agree. Wait until he changes rooms and see. I used to work with 2-3 year olds and once they were nearly 3 (or in some cases over 3 due to waiting for space) they became challenging. We knew it was because they were bored and ready to move rooms.
If there's a few who are older they really should be doing different activities and possibly borrowing things from the next room up for them to explore. IME the children did better once they moved up as they were no longer bored.
Will he also have a change of key worker? That might also help. If he doesn't or gets a key worker he doesn't especially like you can ask if it's possible to change key worker (it might not be but you can ask).

Sorry children should not be getting board their development should not be held back by a birth date a setting should be aware children develop at different rates and provide suitable experiences.

It doesn't sound like a great nursery.

My little girl went to nursery 1.30-5.30pm, like you I work for myself so could be flexible. It worked well as we had mornings and lunch together, chilled, did jobs around the house, got morning nap in etc, so she was pretty fed up off being with me by 1.30pm, and in the afternoons at nursery they go out for walks in the grounds, forest school, watch kids shows or go to the tiny zoo on site. She's never been great with a lot of noise but being out most afternoons she enjoyed. We eventually upped her hours to a few full days and kept afternoons going, full days she would come back so cranky. Now at school she 9-3pm she is still abit cranky at 5 yo (reception) but it's getting better 🤞

He is probably an introvert. There is research to show that we are born this way and it doesn't just happen as we age.

The noise and constant busyness of the nursery will be putting him on edge all day - he will be effectively be in fight or flight mode which is obviously highly stressful for him and you.

I think you would be better having a childminder or even a nanny.

He had a really good day on Tuesday - which I hadn't expected! No accidents, no boredom incidents, they said he played lovely and joined in some special activities and listened really well.

Wednesday was not quite as good, but still no accidents, and they said he was just a bit push-y towards the end when children were trying to take the things he was playing with.

He doesn't seem to be an introvert at home? He's always asking to play with friends, he's a really sociable little boy with me. He's at forest school with his Dad right now and has made friends with a little group of four-year-olds.

A nanny would be our of price range, sadly, we did explore that initially. Childminders don't really seem to be a thing where I am. There's only two on the council website, and both said they mostly do wrap-around care for school-aged children. There's not really a lot of childcare choices for such a big town!

That sounds lovely, @gotmychristmasmiracle - I think here the afternoon session starts at 1, and most of the morning activities finish at 12:30, so he'd go directly from them to nursery. I suspect they do a lot less in the afternoons, though. We gave permission for them to take him out when he started but they never have, other than into the nursery garden.

He's got one more week in his current room and then he's moving up, so I might just see how that goes, and then try and change his hours if it doesn't work for him.

It was a really lovely nursery, we were very lucky to get in. In the mornings they tended to stay in and do activities and afternoons wellies and coats on and out for some fresh air. Think the staff wanted the change of scenery too.

I know my little girl got loads of ear infections at nursery too, they made her run down and not her self, sometimes I didn't even realise it was an ear infection until it popped and then I would be like that's why she isn't herself. Glad he's had a good day and hopefully just a phase 🤞

If you read Susan Cain's book Quiet she explains introversion in children.
I think the reason he is different at home is because he's comfortable there and feels relaxed, in his "sweet spot", same at Forest school probably which will be outdoors and less intense noise.

Introverts do make friends, they just need control of the situation (and be able to withdraw when it gets too much). They are also best in small groups or one to one.

The book is a great read for any parent!

@YouveGotAFastCar
That's such a shame about the lack of childminders. My introvert son did so much better in that environment.

Has he always had the same keyworker? Has there maybe been some altercation with the keyworker that he can’t articulate to you? We had a similar issue years ago which was because of a perceived injustice from one member of staff - fortunately we didn’t have long to go until school but ds point blank refused to go inside the building if this member of staff was on the door in the morning. We had to ask that someone else was there to greet him. Maybe the change of room (and keyworker?) will do the job?

I personally think you should go with your gut instinct which seems to be taking him out. I've worked in several different nurseries and talking with other people too, they seem to be all the same - the kids are unfortunately neglected, left to cry, shouted at, manhandled, not allowed to go to the toilet, left too hot/ top cold, left with bogey running down their faces, etc. The staff to child ratios are too high which makes things difficult, but after doing 10+ hour shifts everyday - people seem to get lazy and stop responding to babies & children's cries.

People who work in nurseries aren't the people you want raising your child - but you don't see it because it's all smiles and cuddles in front of the parents. I did always wonder why the parents sent them in everyday when the children are obviously miserable - but it's so hard to know if you don't see the other side yourself.

I think if you can make it work at home, that's the best place for your child. But if not, then I highly recommend nurseries attached to private schools - you still get the free 15 or 30hrs but with better teachers and better standards. I wish you & you're little one luck, with whatever you do.

Definitely see how he is with the room change. Some children prefer being one of the younger ones and copying the older ones rather than being older and only having younger ones to interact with. It is an unusual age range for each room too. I'd imagine 1.5-2.5 would work better. Children do really change when they move rooms, the expectations on them change as staff are used to working with the next age band so expect them to be more 'grown up' which many children respond to very well.