AIBU - not wanting my children to see their grandad without me there?

[Evecob]

Hi all,

I need outside perspectives please..

Things have been ok with my FIL until about 6 weeks ago. He has always been a but difficult but always took him with a pinch of salt. My partner has always said he hates his dad but continues to see him roughly once a month.

We have 3 children, 6, 4 and 4. 2 girls and a boy.

Recently things changed for me..the children, my husband, his dad and I were talking and playing around with the children, i cant remember how a conversation started about women but my FIL said infront of us all and outloud "women are objects to be used for mens desires" those words... i wasnt sure I heard him right so i asked him to repeat it and he said it again word for word. I challenged that and he continued on this tragectory saying female police officers are useless... i told him this wasnt the case and asked if my husband had anything he wanted to say... he shrugged and stayed quiet. I couldnt quite believe what was happening but i felt alone in that moment.
His dad continued, saying women are also the reason why inflation is so bad. This was all infront of the children and i could feel myself getting red with anger, and argued that point..then my husband jumped in at that point to DEFEND his dad, and argue against me infront of the kids!. His dad then went on to say I need to "get out more, I spend all day in my office at home, and dont know what im talking about" (i work fully remotely)..husband said nothing.
Needless to say I was furious and felt alone defending myself, women, and my kids.

After his dad went home I was furious and told him he needs to set his dad straight, and his dad is not welcome in our house and will not be seeing the kids until then. I also told him i felt he didnt have our backs (me and the kids).

Other instances recently before this include him telling my 4 yr old son "you need to get your haircut you look like a girl" my son had shoulder length hair. I stood up for my son saying "no he doesnt, he looks like a boy with long hair" his response was to roll his eyes and say to my husband "wow you're never gonna get anywhere with this one are you" he said this to my son on 2 occasions.
There have been other disrespectful comments and actions towards my husband as well which my husband ignores, but I dont want my children around someone who speaks this way about women infront of his daughter in law or grandkids.

My husband did message his dad in the end telling him to cool it with sexist comments because I didnt like it and its not how we want to raise our children (not without an argument trying to blame me for making his dad say the things he said) and his dad reacted to my husbands message with a thumbs up.
We saw his dad again one time since and he was fine..

Fast forward to now... my husband told me he is taking the kids to see his dad tomorrow (without me). He hasnt spoken to me about this beforehand and I honestly dont feel comfortable with the kids being around his dad without me. I dont think he will pull up his dad or defend them if they need it... i told him i didnt feel comfortable with it. Initially he told me i need to get over it but then after an argument he text his dad we will be over after I finish work.

AIBU? I dont think he is an emotionally safe person and honestly dont want the kids to be around him at all.... but compromising with me being there..opinions please?

I dont think there is anything I can do if my husband wanted to take them without my consent anyway is there?

Sorry to hear about that. You just need to put your foot down. It sounds like he's getting too old and weird, and your DH hasn't got the grit to stand up to him.

The thing you need to know is that if you don't stand up to the situation now then it will cause you to feel massive resentment towards your DH in about ten years time which will really screw up your health and marriage.

I would Go nuclear right now if possible.

FIL an idiot. I would be very annoyed with husband for not nipping this in the bud.

You have a DH problem if he can’t see how awful his dad is.

Trust your gut. Don't let him take the kids without you there. He could really fuck them up with his crazy comments. I can't believe he'd say that about women with his little granddaughters. Disgusting.

Ok thank you for your comments..at least it seems i am not being unreasonable with my request at least.

He really does sound awful OP, and I wouldn't want my kids spending time with him either. Does your DH really share his father's views? If so, I'd be asking myself if I wanted to continue the relationship, but of course a lot depends on how he speaks to, and treats you on a daily basis, which only you actually know.

I'd be a bit concerned your DP isn't on the same page as you

FIL is a misogynistic prick. DH needs to pick a side, and that side should be his daughters’ (and son’s) and pull his dad up for EVERY unsavoury/offensive/sexist comment.

How old is he? Has he been like this before? I remember a family member getting more weird and inappropriate when he was starting to develop dementia.

Any time your fil makes comments like that just say ...

STUPID MAN

Loud enough for him and anyone else there to hear

If he persists, try ...

SILLY CUNT

He'll stop visiting

‘Isn’t grandpa silly, making stupid comments like that’ every time he says anything. I’d definitely go to his rather than allowing h8m to come to yours, because then you can up and leave THE SECOND he says something inappropriate. You need to get your DH on board, if he already ‘hates’ him, why is he not jumping in full force to defend you/women/his own children?!

Are you sure your husband doesn't agree with him?

That's a simple "no"

Nope, he wouldn’t see me or my dc again at all. Maybe occasionally from afar at a wedding or funeral. Dh would be tasked with visiting himself alone if he wanted a relationship with him (and I’m guessing he wouldn’t e thrilled with that because you and the kids provide a useful distraction so he doesn’t actually have to interact with him much). Dh’s approach to his dad going forward would be pivotal in how successful our relationship would be going forward.

It’s not quite the same, but Dh and I had to go NC with MIL and her partner. Her partner is a convicted child sexual abuser. I told Dh that the dc and I were having nothing to do with them after we found out. What he chose to do in his own relationship with his mum was up to him, but he had 2 choices: he could support me in keeping our children safe and away from potential harm, or he would be on his own and I’d move us as far away as I legally could so that it would be logistically difficult for the dc to have any contact with them if we split. Basically, either he had my back and became a united front with me, or I’d do whatever I could to keep our dc away from all of them if I thought he’d put them at risk just to keep up appearances.

He finally understood how serious I was and he got on side and has supported us being NC ever since. My dc have two happy parents who have each other’s backs AND they have never had contact again with the paedo. Children learn what’s acceptable from the boundaries we set for them.

I personally wouldn’t be taking my kids there at all.

He put a thumbs up didn't he and it didn't happen again.
Maybe he's taken notice.

I think trying to say he can't ever see them without you there would be very hard for you snd I think uour children would rebel when they were older.

I know someone who tried to stop the grandad seeing their child and it was for a far bigger reason than this. Unbeknownst to them, the child got o their bike and cycled over to grandkids.
Presumably your children like their grand dad so I don't think they'd put up with it when older and independent.
Just because that's what you want for them, dosent mean they agree.
How did FIL wife put up with his comments?

He is not a nice man behind closed doors from what I gather from conversations ive had with my husband and late MIL.. his wife (DH mum) died from cancer 4 years ago. Honestly i think that she was an enabler, and he probably wore her down and caused her an early grave. He abused my husband when he was a child, chasing him with a belt, soaking him in cold water if he was naughty..constantly insulting, criticising and belittling behaviours. Apparently he has mellowed since I married into the family but he has always been very critical.

He has made inappropriate comments about womens appearances before but nothing like the above. And never insulted me or women openly before. He is in his 60s.
He has also done a lot of nice things for us like look after our cats when weve holiday'd, and always remembered birthdays, and made an effort to see the kids once a month.

I have been in therapy for 2 years and recently cut off my own mother... which was one of the hardest things ive done. Im trying to raise my children with the love and respect i was never really shown.. i suffered majorly with low self esteem, no boundaries, worthlessness etc..i dont want my kids to stop seeing their family.. most of our family are mentally ill or narcissistic. The toxic mentality of women being objects and disrespectful behaviour to their mother are not what I want our son and daughters to hear and think are ok..

I am always mind blown by men that have daughters/granddaughters and still hold such misogynistic views. Do they also apply this logic to them? Or they are also hypocrites that believe that those views apply to women unrelated by blood only.

No im not sure.. and I think part of why he claims to hate his dad is because he is similar to him. (He shows a lot of npd and aspd traits and our marriage has always been rocky, i am in therapy still because of his behaviours, as well as working on myself)

When i asked him today why he wants to go over with the kids when he says he hates his dad, he said its because he is the only parent he has left.

YANBU!

I'd be absolutely furious and I don't blame you for not wanting him to see your children without you there, knowing your DH won't defend them if needed.

My father has 3 daughters. He is a misogynist. I cannot understand how he can have those views while having 3 daughters. He even made a comment last time I visited essentially disgusted that my sister’s husband cooks and looks after his kids when he gets home from work. Never mind that my sister also works. So it’s ok for her to cook and look after their kids after working all day, but not for the man to do it?

So, yes his misogynistic views also apply to his daughters. He also tried to stop my older sister from going to university because “she will just get married and have children”. Never mind that my Mum always worked. Yes, my sister did get married and have children (about 10 years after finishing uni). She also went back to work and was the main breadwinner in the family. She is now divorced, so fully supports her children.

I have very little to do with him, and if I feel up to the fight I’ll challenge him on his views but it’s not always worth the effort. But if he says something misogynistic in front of my children, damn straight I will be challenging him.

Does your DH not realise that his father is TRYING to cause arguments between the two of you, as a way of controlling and hurting him? This is the kind of man he is, and he will jab jab jab until he gets a reaction (and then call the person who reacts a crybaby or something). He is a sadistic bully.

I don’t blame you for not wanting your kids round him, and if your DH still defers to his father you are entirely reasonable to want to be there whenever there is contact.

Work on the kids, they will no doubt encounter the misogynist old gammon often in life, you cant stop them bumping into the old farts, but they need to be aware that what the old farts say - isnt acceptable, make it clear to the kids what is good and right.

Then go NC with the old c^>* 🙄

I would have to ask my DH if he had the same views as his dad if he did we were divorcing, if we didn’t then he wouldn’t be subjecting his children to the abuse he went through as a child.

He abused my husband when he was a child, chasing him with a belt, soaking him in cold water if he was naughty..constantly insulting, criticising and belittling behaviours

I'm wondering whether your husband - who claims to hate this man - took his side because he's subconsciously scared of him and still secretly wants the approval he never got from him when he was a little boy. Otherwise, I'm struggling to see why your husband would even want contact with an abusive father he hates, let alone why he'd then defend his misogyny in front of not only you but also his own daughters.

Clearly, your husband can't be trusted to stand up to his father or nip any misogynistic chat in the bud, so YANBU not to want him to take your children to see his father without you being there to deal with those horrible comments.