To think this is neuro diverse?

[mushypaperstraws]

I've recently realised that I've never felt embarrassment or shame. Ever, in my entire life.

I used to think I just didn't get embarrassed because I'm just really confident, but I'm not that confident really. I'm fairly shy, I've just never felt any emotion after falling over/saying something stupid/realising I had something in my teeth/ballsing up a presentation/saying hi to someone I realised was the wrong person.

Is this a symptom of a disorder or ASD? I'm just wondering if actually embarrassment and shame is a useful and necessary thing the human brain has developed and I'm missing out on something potentially useful!

What about when you realise you've badly hurt someones feelings.

Or your mistaken has caused someone to lose a lot of money.

Those would be situations where it would be worrying to feel nothing, but the situations you list sound very healthy.

I don't know if it is a useful emotion in your situation. I am autistic and have zero issues with everything you said above. I can't fathom why it would be embarrassing to fall over. It can happen to anyone and I have never felt anything less about the person who fell over. If anything, I would be concerned that they hurt themselves. So, in my logical and regimented autistic thinking, if I feel concerned about someone else falling over then surely others feel the same. Where would the embarrassment come from then and how would it be useful in this situation?
Gult I do feel. If I promise to do something, I always do it because I know I will be letting people down if I don't. So, I guess it is a kind of pre-emptive guilt.
I am going to hazard a guess that embarrassment is a socially conditioned emotion rather than something fundamental to the species' survival. Maybe you just had a very healthy upbringing. I wouldn't start pathologising it, personally.

I am going to hazard a guess that embarrassment is a socially conditioned emotion rather than something fundamental to the species' survival.

And I'd guess the other direction. Embarrassment is essentially fear of social exclusion. Social exclusion is death in hunter-gatherer societies and herd animals in general. Same reason fear of public speaking is so widespread. Essentially fear of social exclusion.

Do you feel empathy?

Interesting question. I suspect my dh is neurodiverse and also doesn't get embarrassed. He fundamentally objects to the concept and is a bit over other people worrying in social situations.

All of those things are about you.

Have you ever felt shame when you've upset someone else?

I’m not sure. I have difficulties with emotions but I had an abusive childhood, I can easily switch off negative emotions because I wasn’t allowed to have them as a child without consequences. I’m also seeking an adhd diagnosis and I can very easily switch off my emotions for people - as horrible as it sounds I feel zero for my ex despite having been together for 13 years, I can drift away from friends and not give it a second thought/miss them. Think it’s part of the object displacement that comes with the condition, out of sight/out of mind.

My ex has undiagnosed autism and definitely feels embarrassment. It came out as anger when he felt guilt/shame/embarrassment about something (that was his way of dealing with it, not everyone with autism does).

Your examples are more that you don't take yourself too seriously or think everyone cares deeply about your every move. It just sounds emotionally healthy.

How do you feel about things that might hurt others, when people bitch to you about others or you say something that upsets someone? Have you never done something when drinking you regret, what about with guys?

My ASD DD is like this, but CAMHS didn't think it was very relevant. I'm NT and a bit like this too. I wouldn't overthink it.

That is not a 'symptom'. Many people with autism absolutely do have empathy, some others dont.
Please read up about autism before posting, airmchair expertise is not needed by the OP.

I would say empathy is a big indicator of potential ND.

So OP if you lack empathy as well, then you are possibly ND. But if it's not causing you a problem then don't worry too much.

Read up about ND traits and the strategies to deal with it.

I'm autistic and get embarrassed by things like that (varying amounts dependent on exact circumstances) as do my neurodiverse family members so I don't think this is specifically anything to do with neurodiversity. I also have empathy, probably too much if anything.

The question was simply that- a question.

Not a diagnosis nor a judgement.

Personally I’m autistic and have no idea what your problem is.

Neurodiverse people do not have no empathy. So sick of this nonsense being repeated.

Every neurodiverse person I know including myself are exactly the opposite, shame and embarrassment are our primary emotions.

Many people with autism absolutely do have empathy, some others dont.

It depends a little on what you mean by empathy. ASD and theory of mind are linked. And without well-developed theory of mind, true emotional empathy is difficult. You can care, you can logically work it out, but that visceral fellow-feeling must have an element of theory of mind, surely.

I think it's difficult because 'lacking empathy' is seen as a terrible failing. But many jobs, from surgeon to racing driver, require a basic lack of empathy. You can't cut into someone if you are a very empathetic person.

Oh yes, my ex didn’t always feel appropriate embarrassment if that makes sense. Like he’d say something completely inappropriate and not understand why someone would be offended or embarrassed by it. But he would get embarrassed by criticism (for example being brought up on saying the inappropriate thing). He’d argue the toss about why he shouldn’t feel embarrassed by things that would cause that feeling for others. For example he’d not wear professional clothing, things with holes in them. Wasn’t embarrassed about it until pulled up on it, and then felt shamed because he was criticised and not because he couldn’t be arsed to replace clothing to look presentable. Most people would be embarrassed to get to work knowing they looks scruffy that day but he’d carry on without a second thought because how he came over to others was a ‘you problem’.

Yep, they're my default position.

The only person I know who doesn't feel embarassment or shame or have any empathy is my brother. I'd bet my entire jaffa cake collection on him being a functioning psychopath.

That's all I read it as too (just a question).

Weird knee-jerk response from the PP 😳

I know someone with ASD who also doesn't feel embarrassment. It sort of made him a good canvasser because he had no fear of rejection or if making a fool of himself, but he would also say totally inappropriate things (beyond just being blunt).

Can't say as I ever feel shame because I don't really do anything to feel ashamed about! I'm sure if I did I would feel it though!

I don't feel embarrassed in my day to day life as I'm confident and outspoken and can easily turn something into a joke or a laugh even at my own expense.

I would probably feel embarrassed at a medical appointment if I had to discuss bodily functions, but that's quite normal I guess?

Emotions are a form of communication, so in the nature of ASD it’s less about lacking empathy but miscommunications around it. So it’s more typical of an ND person to show ‘empathy’ or connection of understanding by relaying a story about themselves that they believe shows empathy, but to the person they’re talking to it sounds like they’re making the situation all about them. Fully lacking empathy is a sign of other issues/trauma. But yes, it makes for greater career opportunities - politicians in the top positions do not get there for being genuinely empathetic people.

I thought the poster was thinking about psychopathy...

I'm autistic and always got embarrassed about absolutely everything. I've had to teach myself not to be. So I don't think it's an ND trait either way.

I have ASD, as has DS, and we spend A LOT of time over analysing and feeling embarrassment and shame about really ridiculous, little things (we both have what was previously knows as Asperger's though, which can present rather differently to other ASD traits). We are both also very empathetic.

Autism is indeed a broad spectrum.