To ask for the higher end of the salary range and to ask mumsnet how to get it?

[orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements]

I'm going for a new job and I'm really excited about it. The interview is in a few days.

The problem is, I haven't actual had a "job" job in almost five years now. I have five years experience in the role, followed a year's experience in a similar role and then another four years experience in the role I am applying for before I was made redundant towards the end of 2019 (I was made redundant from the two jobs before my last one too).
I stayed at home for a couple of months but was intending to start looking for new jobs in January 2020 when my youngest turned 2 but covid started to make it impossible.
Instead, my husband and I set up a business together (relevant to his work experience and absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with mine) which I've run from home since 2020. TBH I hate it, I want my own job, in the role I loved and I want to actually go out to work and have set hours instead of being stuck indoors fitting a job round the kids and being on the phone to customers at any moment of the day. Husband is on board and willing to close down the business and do some ads-hoc work part time to add to my wage and be home more with the kids, do school runs etc.

AAAANYWAY... to make this lifestyle and income change worth it (the business is doing well), I really do need to achieve the top end of the salary range they are offering which is more than I've ever achieved in any similar job. Does my previous experience seem enough to ask for it? would the five year gap put employers off and lower my earning potential?
Any tips at all on how to ask for it would be much appreciated as I've never had to before.

Thanks so much if you got this far!

Hey, you have had a job for the last 5 years. You have been a director in XXX with responsibility for finance/HR/logistics/whatever. Tailor your experience to the role, but you do have relevant experience. Also include what you’re earning now - even nominally. That will give them something to hang their coats on. In the public sector they’ll try to get away with offering you the increment above your current salary, so if you’re currently on £32k then make sure you include that.

You could ask them in advance if they have a starting salary policy. They might never start anyone on over 10% of the lower end of the band or they may be really flexible.

Or you could just go to the interview and see what happens. If they like you enough and have budget, then great.

It’s good interview experience and it’s not like you have to take annual leave from a current job to go to it.

So it depends if you are happy spending time preparing for a interview for a job you might not take even if offered.

I think it depends…

If your role was IT and you’ve been out of the game your experience will be relevant but you would be thought of as ‘stale’. If it’s ancient Roman history, then you’ve not lost anything by being out of the role for 4 years.

My general advice is go for it and negotiate once you’ve seen the offer

Unfortunately you're looking at the challenge from the wrong end of the telescope.

to make this lifestyle and income change worth it (the business is doing well), I really do need to achieve the top end of the salary range they are offering which is more than I've ever achieved in any similar job

it's ill advised going into an interview situation with a goal to achieve a salary level to make your lifestyle worth it.

the employer is looking for the right person for the job, and when they find the right person there is then a window of opportunity to talk salary level, because they are attracted to the candidate and they offer the skills, experience and personality fit that matches their recruitment expectations.

You need to think "what do I have to offer the employer that they can't find elsewhere?". If you go into it thinking you don't have the experience, then you have two options, you can either style it out and hope that you'll pick up what they need quickly or you have to come clean in post that this is work you haven't done before.

unfortunately because you can't reveal what the work is or the seniority level, it's difficult to advise. If you can only make it viable for you on the highest of the range, but you can't give them tangible evidence of your experience which they will need to offer you the higher level, then you could find them selecting another candidate if they have more experience. If it's a niche role they can't fill, then they might take the risk who knows

In the public sector £22-38k spans at least two grades and you wouldn't get the higher one without direct relevant experience and possibly qualifications.

So chances are this is a £22k job for you and it's unlikely they'll pay any more than that. Even if you do get onto the higher grade, they're probably £22-29k and £29k to £38k so your aspirations for £32-35k are likely pie in the sky as recruitment is almost always at the bottom of the band.

Plus if it's civil service, the pay scale above the minimum is pure fiction for the majority as there's no pay progression. Only people who have protection due to long standing previous service before the last government and are still marking time tend to be above the bottom of the pay scale.

OP it sounds like you've got plenty of experience. They normally ask for current salary to work out what to offer, so you can lay out expectations then. Best of luck!

If it’s a salary range based on agenda for change for example, im not sure you can negotiate but happy to be proven wrong! I only know about the NHS.

There is no secret trick to this that other people know and you don't.

You just tell the employer that you'd like £35k, if they refuse that then tell them you won't take it for anything under £32k - this is the truth as you have said you won't take it if you can't achieve this.

They'll decide whether or not you are worth it and they can afford it based on your interview/ experience/ skills.

That's all there is to it. There's no secret.

You said:
The problem is, I haven't actual had a "job" job in almost five years now.
I want my own job... instead of being stuck indoors fitting a job round the kids and being on the phone to customers at any moment of the day.
So, you have not had a job, you did a bit of picking up the phone for your DH when the kids weren't needing you. That isn't even as much as a temp receptionist manages. Even your friends recognise that.

Now, assuming the business is pulling in £64k as you and DH are sharing the money - it would be very silly to close it down rather than add a phone service such as Moneypenny or Message Direct. Your DH can still drop his hours if he isn't managing, but it'll be much cheaper than you on a full time wage, probably £'00 per month not £'000.

For your own job, you'll need to spin the experience very hard after 5 years out. It's hard for anyone to offer constructive input without the field, but you aren't a newbie out of school so likely to be pitched somewhere in the middle, say bottom of the second band, say £27k. If you want to work for money rather than other factors, you'll need to get away from third sector and similarly worthy civil service and start applying for private sector jobs with higher salaries.

@orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements
youre getting very unempathic advice on here. I’ve been in a similar position to you before, and I would say that what I’ve learned (after getting the public sector job) is:

1. there is v limited flexibility in budgets. Much less than in the third sector. As PPs have said, you will be appointed at the bottom of your current band. It sounds like they are recruiting across two bands so in your shoes I would push for the top band - I imagine £22k is a very junior role and you have significant experience so that should be fine
2. unless you work in a very fast paced field your work experience is completely fine and relevant even if it was a few years ago
3. many people in the public sector are institutionalised by the public sector and it can be a frustrating place to be if you’re used to the more entrepreneurial world of charities (yes, really! They seem entrepreneurial in comparison!)

it sounds like you're really well qualified for the role - good luck!

You mentioned public sector and the range which implies an EO grade. The default is to bring people in bottom of range especially at lower grades where there might be more applicants.

That said I (G7) and all my peers did manage to negotiate. We are technical and niche and the skill isn't as prevalent outside of London.

The line manager may try to request more and it is possible, but it's down to HR and how hard it is to recruit/ retain the role.

Good luck!

PS once you're in CS, it's even harder to negotiate as you progress as an internal candidate so if there is ever a time to negotiate, it is now. Every annual uplift will be based on your current salary.

Did you read any of the OP?

I think you have loads of reasons to sell yourself here OP.

You've done the job before do you do have previous relevant experience.

You don't have a "gap" on your CV, you've been running a business and doing very well at it. This gives you additional skills which other applicants probably won't have.

I'd be honest and say that the business is something which took off during COVID and whilst it was always your long term plan to return to this kind of role your business is doing well so you'd need to be earning at the top of the salary band to make returning to traditional employment financially viable for you. Then continue to emphasis your many and varied transferrable skills and everything you can bring to the team.

You can negotiate pay in the public sector, I’ve done it plenty of times. I think in CS generally they prefer more toward the bottom of the pay scale. However, if it says ‘depending on experience’ and you have the experience, then go for it. Worst that can happen is they say no.

Don’t mention it in interview, only do this if you are offered the post. To be honest I don’t know this would be a question in a public sector interview, I’ve never had it before and have interviewed for a few posts in public sector.

Usually you’ll be asked to write out an email outlining all the reasons why you should be started at a higher point, what skills and experience you have - so what is it that they are paying for, i.e. what makes you the most attractive candidate that they are willing to pay more to get you into the department. Also outline the things in your business role that are transferable. If the area in which you have your previous experience hasn’t changed greatly in the last 5 years in terms of industry changes etc then I can’t see why you wouldn’t get it.

Another tip - always ask for higher or slightly higher than the lowest wage you are willing to take as generally they negotiate down from what you ask for.

Good Luck!

Well done, and good luck with the interview!
My advice would be to look at the payscale chart for the organisation (like the one below). You should just be able to Google it.
That salary range is so broad and covers a number of pay bands.
HR at the LA I work for can only authorise new starters to begin on the second step of the band they are appointed to. So it would depend upon what grade they believe your skills and knowledge fit into as to what salary you would be offered.

How does it work? They have minimum essential criteria and desirable criteria - how can someone coming in at £22k with minimal experience, ever compete with someone who has enough experience to command £38k. I don’t understand how the scoring would ever result in the inexperienced person getting the job?

Now that you have shared the salary scale, I wouldn't have thought £22k would buy you much experience at all, but then the job market is odd these days.

Your minimum of £32k seems quite high for the range though, I would assume £30k would be a likely offer. But it's all pie in the sky unless you are offered the role.

I haven't read replies, but the salary range you have given is broad and starts very low, only someone with next to no work experience should be accepting the lower end of the scale, it's clearly an entry level salary of which you are not if you have work experience and even more so if it is relevant for the job. So if offered the role, I would just go in with the explanation that you'd like to go in at X point to the scale because of x, y and z stating what you bring to the role and how you can justify that. Go in a bit higher so if they come back and say they can't do it, you can counter offer with the minimum you'd be willing to accept (but it'll be the amount you want to get).

I think you would benefit from an hour with a coach but that might be difficult to arrange before the interview.... do look into it though.

Write all of your positive attributes down. Write why you would be great at this job.
If asked, be clear about your expectations. If you decide that I would be a good fit for this job and that my experience is relevant, I expect that you would make the offer at the top end of the salary range. I would be unable to accept the job at less than £35k.

If possible, find out if it is a job where the range is based on years in the job and if everyone starts low and is expected to work their way through the salary with annual increments.

Write sone positive statements about yourself and repeat them every day.

You have received some.good advice here OP. I would say take.care with your use of language. Phrases like 'there isn't any other staff' just grate on lots of people and give the impression of lower intelligence. Little things like this give an overall impression that might subconsciously lower bargaining potential if it comes to that point. Good luck!

I imagine £22k is a very junior role and you have significant experience so that should be fine

It doesn't work like that in the civil service. If it's an admin role, they'll expect the successful candidate to have experience of similar work and have at least intermediate level competency with Word, Excel, Access and Teams. There's people who've been doing the job for years and still only earn £22k as experience isn't rewarded with higher pay.

It's unlikely anyone would be paid more as a new entrant in many departments especially as they'd leapfrog experienced staff who'd be expected to train them in systems and procedures.

There's people who've been doing the job for years and still only earn £22k as experience isn't rewarded with higher pay.

Definitely agree with this! The Civil Service is a diverse organisation that caters for people who want to stay in the same role and for want of a better expression, are happy to plod along at the same level. However if they get a positive rating they will get annual pay increases, so won't stay on the lowest band year after year, they just won't go up the pay scale quickly as someone who is looking for advancement.

The key to success in any CS interview is solid evidence of experience for all the Required Skills in the role specification. @orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements if this is a CS job you're talking about, that's hopefully what you've already been investing time preparing for.

They don't ask any of those hypothetical "what would you do if ..." questions nowadays, it's all evidence of experience and aptitude to do the job. If you get that right describing the relevant experience you have, it puts you in a strong bargaining position for the salary discussion.

@Bjorkdidit why are we talking about the civil service? Sorry not being obtuse but the salary range the OP has mentioned wouldn't be the civil service as it is too broad, so I don't understand why people are raising the civil service's approach to pay when they are an outlier in this regard.

I don't see how this is relevant to answering.

Op, the gap could be a problem, if you're coming up against someone of the same or better experience with no gaps.