Inheritance and care home fees

[Hateam]

Hello!

My mother-in-law is in a care home.

My wife, her daughter, is also in a care home for medical - non age related- issues. My council are paying for my wife's care as we have under £24500 in savings.

When my MIL dies (she's 94) my wife will inherit about £180,000.

We don't want this money going to Essex CC.

Is there anything we can?

Could my MIL's will be changed to remove my wife and replace her with me? She is still of sound mind.

Could the money go into an account in my sole name?

I am aware of the concept of deprivation of assets.

I know all that, I've heard that argument many times, it gets wheeled out on hospital visits. Few families would disagree with that - that's why it gets wheeled out. It's a sales gambit. Why would the news story I link to be a news story if that were the case - why would the family be so up in arms about having a mother be made DNR or DNAR if it only got enacted if they had a massive stroke or heart attack?

It's one of those read-between-the-lines stories.

My argument is, once they're made DNR they can be killed off. As with Gosport War Memorial Hospital, killed off via opiates, subject to blanket front page headlines a few years ago, yet nobody you'll notice has ever been convicted. That was the test case - a heads up to hospitals that they can get away with it.

There is a point where the NHS decides - rightly or wrongly but mainly secretly - that a frail and elderly person is not worth treating so they may as well be hurried along. They're going to die anyway, so what's the point? They won't be cured or get better. They salve their conscience by saying that a person is 'dying' anyway, the process may be taking place over a year or so but it makes no real difference, they can get 'taken out' by a fall or a dose of flu or a UTI so what why not opt for an injection of fatal drugs instead?

Of course, it your relative's death also saves the NHS, local council and Govt money and there's the rub. When they decide your relative is for the chop may not coincide with the family's feelings or indeed the reality of the situation - but so long as the family don't know, well, the Council and NHS take the view it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask permission, largely because they're wholly unaccountable once the deed is done anyway.

All this, to get back to the OP's post, is why a loving husband may prefer to have the money in his account rather than just handing it over to the Council whose only 'best interest' is the bottom line. The money gives him leverage - assuming it's not a Tales of the Unexpected set-up where he splashes out on a sports car and heads off to the south of France with a new squeeze.

Wow this guy is only asking ( hypothetical question) nothing else, none of your business to report this, shame on you,

It must have been a nice distraction from your tedious job of looking after your wife.🙄

Meaning?

Do NOT use "Karen" as an insult! It is sexist and ageist and quite unnecessary.

If you disagree with someone, say why you disagree with them. There is zero need for personal attacks.

FYI

I posted here to find ways to shield my wife's inheritance from care home fees. Judge me all you want for that.

You know nothing about how I cared for my wife in the months leading up to her operations when I saw her brain melting in front of me. You know nothing about the hours a spent at her bedside comforting her, feeding her, washing her and caring for her.

You know nothing about the day of the operation, when she was unable to speak, when I spent hours talking to her about our life together and our memories thinking this might be my last chance to share memories of our first dates, wedding day and other key life moments.

You know nothing about the 9 hours of hell I went through during her operation

You know nothing about her recovery and how I am today helping to learn to walk again.

Judge me all you want for posting about financial planning but you have no right to accuse of not wanting to spend time with my wife.

I’m so sorry OP for the disgusting posts on here by the keyboard warriors, they are truly despicable.
Unfortunately these faceless critics seem to find pleasure in sinking to the depths.
Thank you for that insight into your life, I can only wish both you and your wife the very best of each day.

The comments about money haven't bothered me in the slightest.

Several posters have accused me of being a bad husband to my wife. I will admit to being irritated by those.

Posters site really needs to have a word with themselves about what they say to people looking for help navigating the maze that is the UK benefit system.

A relative of mine tries to follow 3 points as below:

1. Is it true
2. Is it necessary
3. Is it kind.

If a comment doesn't satisfy all three then maybe you should button it or pull back from the keyboard.

No, and no.
I am currently clearing the property with a view to renting it out. That will generate an income for him, but a year's rent round here will only be worth about six weeks nursing home fees. Better than nothing though, and it means the property won't be sitting empty.

If your mil still has capacity, she can change her will to whatever is best. I'd get some proper legal advice in your shoes.

The only reason the OP is getting any sympathy is because he's trying to dodge care home fees.

What he's really doing is getting his wife disinherited so he can do as he pleases with the money, we have no idea if it will be for the wife's benefit. It's not right and if people weren't caught up in the care home angle there would be a very different response.

No - you don't get your wife's inheritance. It's hers.

I think you're seeing something that's not there.

Suggestion of will being changed so he got the dosh was just a suggestion for how it could be kept out of the assessment for his wife's care funded by the Council.

I agree. This is the bit that makes me uneasy. If it was to go direct to their children /her sister or similar people might have reacted differently

If the money goes into a vulnerable persons trust it has to apply to her benefit as determined by 2 trustees ( who can be h ( but not necessarily) and anyone else mum chooses) Only after death would h get it but the trust might say it then goes to a distant cousin

My estate planner says to put inherited money into a trust so that the potential care home can’t touch it as they will otherwise want the house sold and the equity used to pay for care fees for my aged dm.

I get what you are saying but it's not your money it's your MIL and her daughters.

I would understand if you had kids and needed the financial stability as your wife is unable to provide. But not sure why you should be entitled to any? You could use it and get your wife an even better care home for example...

@NewspaperTaxis you're heading down a rabbit hole of conspiracy there.
In the St Helier case the family have every right to be furious as they have been lied to and allegedly documents were falsified. That's completely unacceptable. It does not been that a a DNAR wasn't the right choice given the age of the woman involved. It may well be, obviously I don't know. Performing CPR on someone in their late 90s would be horrific.
Different levels of intervention is appropriate for different people depending on their age, diagnosis, level of frailty etc. Doctors should be doing what is appropriate, not trying to keep everyone alive under any circumstance.
Posts like yours only serve to scare people and make them much less likely to want to discuss advanced care planning. Not helpful at all.

1. If your MiL still has capacity she can change her will when we she wishes in whatever way she wishes.
2. If the will tendons unchanged, but your wife has capacity when your MiL dies then she can request a deed of variation so that her mother’s inheritance bypasses her completely and goes straight to her beneficiaries.

typos
*whenever she wishes
*remains unchanged

Sorry @jellycatandkittens I'm not buying it. Which part of the Gosport War Memorial Hospital deaths didn't actually happen? What's really odd about your last comment is that basically you seem to be agreeing with everything I say! Your only point seems to be, yes, doctors can do this and they should be allowed to! Well, I agree we can debate that. But what's the conspiracy?

My point is, there is no debate. It happens with or without the family's consent and there have been other occasions when a relative is put on the Liverpool Care Pathway without the family's consent, the family get them out and they continue to live quite happily, with most if not all of their marbles. We struggled to get Dad out of ACU in Epsom General Hospital in late April last year, he was basically okay after a mild hiccup - all his tests came back okay - but we had to produce a hard copy of our LPA in Health and Welfare while the cow of a matron pored over it to find a loophole, tried every trick in the book to catch us out, got her mates to surround us and film us on the smart phone in the hope we'd lose our rag and the police could be called.

We got Dad home, sat him up at the table, he drank one of those chocolate bio drinks down all by himself, he lived another six months until they got him the next time. Presumably you think they should have got him the first time round? Like, they knew best?

I actually find your response very chilling. There is no discussion. The hospital does what it wants.

You sound like a loving husband, but if I was MiL I would set up a trust, just incase you later divorced my daughter and ran off with my dosh.

How is my response "chilling"?! I said families should be involved in the discussions and that doctors should be providing the most appropriate treatment which is not keeping people alive at any cost.
I'm not saying that bad things don't happen. But to to claim that DNARs are a sinister tool that allows elderly people to be bumped off I
Is just ridiculous. I'm sorry you had a poor experience with your dad, I really am. But DNARs and advanced care planning have a really important place in the wider care of patients, particularly elderly and frail people.

I think it's common for people to be asked to sign up to these (DNAR although I think the name has changed?) in the middle of the night when there are no family around to support the person to make the decision and the person isn't listened to trying to represent themselves. I have friends who have told me that they have overheard these conversations at night on the ward - when visiting someone else. It's not a good system at the moment.

I'm with MIL and op. Put the money where the council can't get their hands in it ... in trust!