Inheritance and care home fees

[Hateam]

Hello!

My mother-in-law is in a care home.

My wife, her daughter, is also in a care home for medical - non age related- issues. My council are paying for my wife's care as we have under £24500 in savings.

When my MIL dies (she's 94) my wife will inherit about £180,000.

We don't want this money going to Essex CC.

Is there anything we can?

Could my MIL's will be changed to remove my wife and replace her with me? She is still of sound mind.

Could the money go into an account in my sole name?

I am aware of the concept of deprivation of assets.

The OP would be trustee, and remainderman (final beneficiary) the trust can be worded to give the wife the right to any income received (interest) but no right to the funds - the trustees could use the money for a house for the remainderman to live in, it would be titled in the name of the trustees.

But it’s not your money to worry about where it goes

no worse then making lifetime gifts to avoid IHT or not paying tax on ISA as they are in a protected wrapper or not paying IHT on pensions or claiming child benefit despite having crazy high incomes because you sheltered money in a pension to reduce income

All those things need clamping down on as well.

I have quite a bit of sympathy for the OP and his family.

Why should anyone have to pay for their care? You can’t help getting old and thereby your likelihood of long term illness inevitably goes up, but I assume your MIL has paid taxes all her life and now it’s her turn, the authorities want her assets. If she’d peed her money up the wall and been irresponsible, the state would step in and pay. A good reason to me for just blowing it all when you can - absolutely no incentive to save whatever. It’s a lie that the NHS provides care from the cradle to the grave, but no politician want to get a grip because the NHS has become a national religion - particularly after covid.

It’s also the luck of the draw whether you need long term care or not. If your MIL had been one of those active, sprightly individuals who just drifted away in her armchair one night, no one would have thought twice about how ‘unfair’ it was that her children inherited.

Tbh, I think the time has possibly come where we dismantle the NHS as it stands and we all pay some sort of insurance - even if it’s percentage based on income. After all, whenever something is ‘free’ no value is put on it. Nothing like a bit of personal investment for us all to take a bit more responsibility for our own health.

Means tested, is a financial report , your wife's saving, income, she will be allowed x amount without charging rest to care, but all other income plus property so if you own your own property this too goes into pot, so mil, once all finances have been used social services will ring fence the property, home care can work out more expensive than nursing home care, we can gift close family but this is one off payments small amount, financial assessment will collect all information and monitor this yearly,
Nursing home, rest home different cost guessing you wife needs nursing care, prices vary depending on finances, friends mum went into care no saving but property, after 3 yrs her mum passed and the bill for care went to family and home was sold, at a loss or not enough to pay for nursing home, family or NOK got bill for the rest, nursing home fees were 1,200 aweek before covid,

I don't see why you can't do this from your own income.

And if those lucky enough to buy property fairly cheaply in the 80s and 90s had paid a proper amount of tax during those years I might have had more sympathy for the view that taxpayers should stump up the bill.

I think most people who bought in the 80s and 90s paid whatever was the "proper" amount of tax at the time. I certainly did, I was always on PAYE so had no way of avoiding it.

I don't see how that is relevant to the question of care home fees.

How would that help the OPs situation? Do you think that the insurance costs would pay for lifetime care in a care home?

Jesus! What am I reading? The OP has a house of £250k and the mil £180k, we are not talking about rich people here, probably a few generations back they did not own their own homes.

You do realise very wealthy people set up their finances to pay no or little tax? Wealthy families with land and property, businesses and investments set up in trusts, held in companies based off shore, loopholes a plenty when you’re rich enough to pay for the services to set it up.

Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t sold off the countries assets to their chums to make money there would be plenty of money to pay for care homes in this circumstance.

Get a financial adviser OP. Money can be used form property, cash in the bank or stocks and shares to pay for care but they don’t look at all assets. Ie classic cars, jewellery, Rolexes, wine and art. Hence why the later are so collectible. Your mil could sell her home and buy 18 watches. She can do what she likes and give them to whomever. You and your wife can sell them one by one as and when you need the money.

Re point 2

My wife isn't elderly. She is physically and mentally disabled.

NHS continuing care is for people with complex care needs. Take a look at the NHS website where you can see details and download the decision support tool so you have a clear idea of the criteria.

I don’t think people understand someone that needs 24/7 care often requires more than one person. People on assisted breathing for example require someone awake with them at all times, sometimes two. Carers are 4x a day unless the council deem you to need 24/7 care and then that should be funded. 2 carers for 24hours a day on minimum wage is not possible for most people.

it isn’t a case of just saying hi whilst they’re in bed once you’re home from work and give the kids their tea.

You are outrageous. It would be a clear case of deprivation of assets as was being done for one purpose. Why should the taxpayer fund your wife's care when she could fund it herself if/when she inherits from her mother? Presumably you and your wife have already had your finances disaggregated as her care home admission is permanent. So you personally are not currently affected financially by her care home status.

Who’s to say your wife won’t divorce you in the future? For being a greedy bastard. What happens to her inheritance then if her mum is alive and has dementia at that stage? She loses out. Cannot believe your brass neck in posting this.

One friend has mobility issues. She has a car on the motorbility scheme. Should she pay for that herself?

Just to reiterate. My wife is disabled not elderly.

Some people that never worked get it free. Why should people that worked and paid their stamp have to pay??

Her money should pay for her care. Only once her inheritance is gone should the taxpayers pay. Any other arrangement is stealing from the taxpayers.

The cap has been dropped now- the costs to the public purse would be too high.

Elderly or disabled.
The arguments are the same.

How come people that don't have the money don't have to pay yet people that worked and saved get screwed at every corner.

Just curious as to how long you've been married, are any kids involved between your wife and you? Does your wife have siblings. I'm sure you should be able to mange to take her to shows and day trips without over £100,000

I agree with this. Sometimes I wonder at the lack of empathy on here. I’m not sure how Labour actually got in if Mumsnet is representative of this British public.

Not if she’s always paid tax on any income or savings. It’s those that have contributed bugger all throughout their lives and get it free that annoy me.

It was not the OP’s choice or his wife’s choice to be in this awful situation where she has to live the rest of her life in a care home. My mum died of a brain tumour and needed to be in a care home, she had no savings so we got help too. Do people not think care like this should be free to alleviate the pressure on people who have found themselves in these awful situations? I can understand where you are coming from OP. If you have kids then I would suggest getting the majority changed to them but a small percentage to you for reasons you’ve suggested, days out etc.