To think that putting to sleep very difficult dogs is not the most awful thing for them?

[UnchainedMelanie]

DH and I recently adopted a dog. It’s taken nearly 4 years and lots of patience to get to this place. We found rescues quite difficult to deal with and some were downright dishonest. Those that were great often had criteria as strict as the Pissfingers meme (will attach in case anyone hasn’t seen it!) so were possibly more overcrowded than they need to be.
We had a foster to adopt trial with a dog 18 months ago which went horribly wrong when he bit DH badly. The rescue did not tell us that the dog had a history of biting and challenging behaviour, but took him back after the incident (which would have been fully preventable had we know more about the dog and were prepared for the behavioural issues, although they were so tricky to handle we wouldn’t have adopted him).
It’s taken a long time to find the right dog, and part of that is that there are so many very difficult dogs in rescue shelters, which we (and apparently most other people) feel unable to take on. Some of these dogs end up in kennels for years.
Our previous foster is still as yet unhomed, and we learnt that he’d been fostered a further couple of times with similar outcome to our own.
I am a dog lover, I hate to see cruelty, and having had several years of visiting various shelters and getting close to finding a dog a few times I’m starting to think that keeping really challenging dogs in kennels for a long time is downright cruel. Many are anxious and stressed, yet are living in conditions that don’t suit them on the off chance that someone will be willing to take on a dog with a difficult history.
My own old dog was pts about 5 years ago. Whilst the process was upsetting for me, my old girl was very peaceful throughout, it wasn’t a traumatic thing to go through at all for her.
Talking about dogs being pts is very emotive, but I wonder if for some dogs this would be preferable to long spells in kennels.

AIBU

@ntmdino "He was perfectly safe with her"

No one who actually knows about dogs would EVER say that. No dog is "perfectly safe" with a child.

I agree. Everyone says they would put a suffering dog down but they only mean a physically suffering dog, not a mentally suffering one.

Behavioural euthanasia should really be more common than it is. Sure, with time, money, training etc you can probably improve the reactivity, fearfulness etc but honestly that time and money and kennel space could save 5-10 other dogs in the same amount of time.

Childfree, dog free homes with people home all the time, with the time, money and inclination to carefully manage every single moment and interaction of a dog are rare.

You spent one day with a bite risk dog and then brought it home to live with your kids.

The mind boggles.

Most people don't offer homes to biters because it's beyond stupid to bring a bite risk dog around children. You just got really, really lucky.

Totally agree with you. I love dogs but I am not sentimental about keeping every dog alive at all costs. Euthanasia is quick, peaceful and painless whereas a stressful and confusing life being shunted back and forth between failed adoptions, or merely existing in a shelter for years on end, never knowing what it is to be loved or properly stimulated, is no life. Some dogs, for whatever complicated reason are never going to be chosen, and taking up valuable space and resources that could help 20 other dogs that could be re-homed just seems daft. The dog won't know it's about to be euthanised, it's no different to going in for a general anesthetic, just that they don't wake up from it. The dog isn't going to be aware that it's dead. There won't be a family mourning its loss, so really, where's the harm?

People like to say 'but why should the dog suffer/be punished?' But the truth is that the dog doesn't suffer at all, and has absolutely no concept of being 'punished' when it's unconscious and anesthetised.

You were lucky, not right.

Sadly the general public don’t agree and rescue centres get absolutely dammed if they PTS a dog. Then they lose support and money and can’t help as many dogs.
They cannot win unfortunately.

We have re-homed several 'hard to place' and somewhat unstable rescue dogs from a specific breed rescue over the years. They have been tricky to manage but are very much our type of dog. Ancient breed, stunningly beautiful, not really that trainable and very attached to 'their' people. For us, the compromises are worth it.

I have been saying for ages that rescues are dodgy and they routinely lie about dogs behavioural issues - and I get shouted down every time.

Someone died in Norfolk last year after her rescue XL bully (with a bite history!!!) attacked her. The charity didn’t inform her it had a bite history - it came out in the press when the dogs previous owner went public!

Personally, as someone who does a lot of fostering, I would never touch the ‘big five’ rescues.

I’ve fostered maybe a dozen dogs in the last two years with Spaniel Aid and another breed specific one - never had an issue. But they are very fussy about who they let foster and who they let adopt - because they care about dogs, unlike the big five.

And yet other people complain "the big five" are too fussy. This is a prime example of why rescues can't win. I've worked for a two of those "big five" rescues and it is absolutely false that they routinely lie about behaviour issues, in fact they have extremely strict policies about disclosure and get people to sign disclaimers to confirm they have been informed of the dog's history and another disclaimer to confirm they will muzzle the dog in public. So I'm afraid you're speaking in utter ignorance there. It's smaller rescues in my experience that are more likely to have dodgy practises because they can get away with it more easily than a big public-facing organisation can.

One day is more than 99% of people have with their dogs before they take them home.

He had never bitten anyone - he just warned people away, doing everything right as a dog should. And we're not talking about a 5yr old child with no understanding or self-preservation here, our daughter was 13 and a) understood the risk, and b) understood the canine escalation ladder. Unlike the two people who pushed my hand away to shove theirs in his face because "dogs love me" and got a minor bite for their troubles (still didn't break the skin, though).

My point is that his temperament was "determined" in the worst possible circumstances, in an environment in which he was constantly terrified and unable to cope. Taking him out of that, with a human that he instantly trusted for some reason, removed the problem.

Y'all keep saying we got really, really lucky. Well, we've been "really, really lucky" 7 times so far with various dogs that nobody else would adopt. At what point is it no longer luck?

YANBU but many dog ‘lovers’ are emotionally motivated and selfish. They don’t see the balance of dog well-being and the greater good.

Considering how many people bought and bring rescues from those charities to be PTS at the practice I co-owned and worked at…I’d say I’m not.

Follow-up support is awful, vetting is awful. The whole process is just designed to fail.

We tried to adopt from local dogs trust, got overlooked so many times. Rang up begging practically and all said was to complete form and wait.

We got a whippet from reputable local breeder. We'll that dog is my absolute furbaby and doggy love of life.

People say adopt, shelters put many barriers in place.

When I was a kid, we rescued a dog.
It was a wired hair patterdale terrier. Not our first dog by a long way, we are a farming family.
It was walked for 4 hours a day. 2 lots of 2 hours and not really ever left alone. It was a little shit, would run out into the road and cause havoc, once chewed through his lead and chased sheep that were in Ewe, not come back to his name, leap up on to the counters of kitchen etc. my parents spoke to a dog specialist, their advice didn't work. The last straw was dog was dicking about in the road and was nearly hit by an elderly couple who were distraught, my step dad took dog straight to the vets as soon as he caught him and he was put to sleep. My step dad knew dog would hate kennels and o agree in this situation it was the kindest thing.

My Aunt had a rescue dog for about 10 years which had what could only be described as severe mental health issues due to abuse and homelessness as a young dog. While my Aunt cared for the dog until he became too ill and had to be pts, that dog ruled her life for 10 years leaving her unable to go anywhere even for a few hours and leave him even in the care of someone else, he would go for anyone who came into her home and was extremely possessive of my aunt and this was with training and seeing behaviourists. When he was finally pts due to illness it was like my Aunt got a new lease on life, travelling, seeing friends, taking classes and so on. As a life long dog lover and owner she said she would never have another dog again due to her last experience.

I think it was an amazing thing she did to give that dog a nice life for 10 years but it was at huge cost to herself.

I think are some scenarios when dogs should be PTS. My Dsis had a rescue which was not great with her kids (not apparent immediately but contempt grew over time). The dog then bit her child twice, unprovoked and so my Dsis had the dog PTS. It was one of those binary things, the dog wasn't safe and wasn't predictable. She knew the dog couldn't be rehomed easily if at all. So that was the kindest thing in the circumstances.

I do think any shelter being dishonest about past is terrible. I just don't get it. Equally I think they have some frankly bonkers rules, I know someone who can't get an indoor cat from a shelter because she lives in an apartment on the 5th floor. And it seems quite a lot have rules about flats not being above 2 or 3th floor. For an indoors cat! Crazy. Especially as she was happy to have FIV cat (given it was going to be indoors).

A really interesting thread. I agree with you OP - a lot of dogs in UK shelters should be quietly and peacefully put to sleep. I'm not a fan of people adopting from overseas - frankly on cost grounds and it does nothing to change the animal culture in those countries - or keeping dogs alive for another couple of years by spending a small fortune on vet bills. I rescue pedigree cats so not the same level of risk at all but I would like to see animal welfare organisations have greater powers to be able to remove animals from poor owners, shut down poor quality breeders and offer more reasonable vet support. The number of times I see official charity posts asking for help for vet bills (£high hundreds/low 1000s) to help the animal (1-2 cats) stay in their home or to repatriate yet more dogs/cats to this country from overseas. The other thing I have noticed is the people I know who adopted dogs from overseas (having complained they couldn't find a dog to their taste in UK rescues) do nothing for animal welfare here. So do nothing to improve the situation for the next time they want to rescue a dog. (And they are great dog owners)