Matthew Perry- “I wonder how much this moron will pay”

[GoodieMcTwoshoes]

Sorry if there's a recent thread, it doesn't show up in search.

Apparently his doctors took advantage of his vulnerability and discussed things like “I wonder how much this moron will pay.” Matthew Perry: Two doctors among five charged over ketamine-related death | Evening Standard

That's awful. :(

I felt this too but my own sibling, once a traumatised child deliberately targeted by an adult county lines heroin dealer spent his life battling drug addiction with no financial resources at his disposal and very little help from anyone despite his desire to get clean and live a normal life, died of an accidental overdose several months before Matthew Perry. I have been made to feel like he was a junkie whose life was worth nothing and dying like this was no less than he deserved. Maybe drug deaths are more tragic when they happen to a celebrity in an LA jacuzzi than when they happen in the streets of Scotland but I don’t feel that way…Sorry for the diversion from the topic!

While completely agreeing with you I believe the magic word here is "high profile". The street junkie who passes out in an alley doesn't make the news, we never grew up with the guy watching him on telly. It's when the famous persons death gets plastered all over the news and social media that the authorities feel the need to show the public how "relevant they are" by arresting 5 people then popping infront of the cameras in order to join the celebrity circus and advance their careers. To be honest I'm glad they did it, I just wished they did the same with every junkie who dies of overdose, unfortunately not the case.

So sorry for your loss and for the lost life of your sibling. This is heartbreaking.
When a celebrity with the world at their fingertips make these choices it's very sad, of course but it's not quite the same.

It's also a very effective medication for humans for the same reasons as it's abused.

My brother also died of an accidental overdose around the same time as yours. He was a recreational user rather than an addict, but also started using following a traumatic event - he had mostly turned things around and was doing well up until his death. There was no attempt made to investigate who the drug dealer might have been, as my brother was not famous and as there were so many other overdose deaths that the police simply didn't have the capacity to investigate all of them. Any time that I read about the opioid crisis, idiots comment that it is "natural selection", "junkies deserve it", etc. I suppose it never occurs to these idiots that the relatives of those who died from overdoses might want to read articles and comments about the topic.

I do feel sympathy for Matthew Perry, and am glad that the investigation has highlighted that there are some physicians who are simply glorified drug dealers. I assume that these same dealers are also responsible for the deaths of others, and at least they will not be able to kill more people from jail. But I do feel bitter knowing that Matthew Perry gets some justice, while so many others do not.

Utterly heartbroken. Appalling, evil people. I hope they never get out of prison

Yet they are enabled and enriched by the Hollywood/entertainment community who grieve for Perry. The Ketamine Queen probably has some big names on her speed dial

Someone can earn money from the work they studied and qualified in without being unethical in their prescribing. There are lots of private doctors in the UK, and doctors in the US and other countries, who do.

If nothing else, they risk being struck off. And they're not all evil.

I don't think there's much evidence for it, that's why the NHS don't use it much for mental illness. There are so many other, more effective (for most people) treatments. Stuff like that should always be only prescribed as a last resort. Because it doesn't really work for many people anyway maybe. It's a last ditch attempt.

And I think the recreational dose is very different.

Not quite sure how this was the BBC1 lead news story though. Never watched a single episode. Millions more didn’t watch either looking at the uk viewing figures. People in LA do drugs and are crooks. Is that a surprise? Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland - ring any bells?

There are a couple of other elements in the US which make it more likely there than here.

The first is the culture of drugs being marketed direct to patient (anyone who's watched tv whilst in the US will understand) and the US culture of giving the consumer what they want.

The second is that most people use their health insurance to pay for drugs and when they are dispensed they get several weeks of supply in one go. In the UK, if you were prescribed an opioid you wouldn't be given a stash big enough to develop a serious addiction.

(I don't think this is particularly applicable in Perry's case, but is definitely part of the opioid epidemic issue).

Matthew Perry was apparently receiving ketamine infusions to treat depression

Speaking as a former addict, this sounds an insanely risky course of action for someone with such a history of addiction!

This made me so sad to read. Poor bastard. Being hugely rich really isn't the answer to everything. He would have been far better off never hitting the big time.

Like MJ

Absolutely. And the conclusion was...he ended up hooked on large doses of it.

These were my thoughts on this tragedy too.

I didn't mean that - it's a fantastic anaesthetic. I've needed it before because I'm allergic to certain components in the standard ones.

Yep, ketamine is highly addictive, so basically he was trying to treat his addiction problems with a highly addictive substance?, madness. I don't think they were trying to cure him but more like drain his bank account. Apparently he went through a ketamine assisted therapy with a psychologist, after the assisted therapy he kept asking for more but the psychologist refused so MP was able to buy it illegally in the black market then had his drug enabler assistant (who's not a doctor) injecting him every day, I think that's pretty telling on why this guy could not get of drugs... because those closest with him didn't have his best interests. Add to the fact he was leaving all his will to his assistant, you guys do the math...

Oxycontin is available in Europe, including in the U.K. Many people take it for pain with no problems apart from the medical dependence that comes with regular use of opioids.

The problem in the US was initially due to the time-release mechanism not working properly. Drug companies refused to allow doctors to permit 8-hourly dosing instead of the recommended 12-hourly dosing. So the patient would feel fine for say, 6-9 hours, then be in agony until the next dose. Drug companies insisted the mechanism worked fine and told doctors to increase the dose. So a patient who was taking 10mg twice a day would have their dose increased to 20mg twice a day, instead of 10mg three times a day. But they would still be in pain between doses. Doctors gave higher and higher doses without the pain being relieved consistently - no wonder patients became addicted!

In Europe now, doctors who understand pain management will switch a patient to 8-hourly dosing if 12-hourly doses wear off too quickly and breakthrough pain is not controlled by the sister drug Oxynorm. This allows patients to be stable on lower doses. Many stay on the same dose for years. Just because it is a street drug, it doesn't mean it can't be used by patients who need it. For many it has fewer side effects than alternatives such as morphine.

Ketamine is also used in pain management, both in emergency medicine and for long-term management of chronic pain (by regular infusions). It is also used for treatment-resistant depression, often in the form of a nasal spray.

So many myths floating around!

But was he?

If he was out of it and asking for more, isn't the person who administered it partly responsible? And the qualified doctor who supplied it knowing?

If you had someone suicidal and handed them a knife, I think we would argue some culpability.

Were they his doctors?

Or Doctor Feelgoods, rogue doctors supplying controlled substances and operating pills mills?

I live in the US and have never been given a 'tube of painkillers' by any doctor or dentist, and I've seen plenty here since 1989.

'Doctors in the US' do not 'give them away like candy'.

So much here that simply isn't factual.

You don't get 'several weeks supply in one go' in the US - maybe thyroid meds, or some other medication to treat a long term condition, but not painkillers.

Health insurance doesn't impact the quantity a doctor prescribes.

The advertising of drugs on TV doesn't mean patients get a prescription if they march to their doctor demanding one.

The US culture of giving the consumer what they want...

• nonsense.

The indicted doctors in Perry's case were operating outside of the law and in contravention of professional practice. He was being treated lawfully and in accord with professional practice (though ketamine is a controversial treatment) by a doctor who was giving him infusions, and seeking extra ketamine from the pill mill operators.

fpm.ac.uk/opioids-aware-clinical-use-opioids/current-uk-data-opioid-misuse
There should be no complacency about opioid misuse in the UK.

Yes, this is what I thought. No better than drug dealers.

Yes, Matthew Perry took the drugs but he’d also tried several times to get clean. People around him including his assistant seemed to be happy to facilitate his addiction instead of helping him to stay off drugs. Incredibly exploitative. I was so sad to read the piece.

@mathanxiety

Erm ok. I disagree.

I worked on stuff relating to opioid epidemic and litigation.

If the tv advertising didn't work in the US, it wouldn't happen. Manufacturers spend millions on it.

It wasn't a point about Perry's case (as I already said) but the US healthcare system in general which is set up in a way which gateways patient access to addictive meds.

There is far less of an issue with prescribed pharma becoming opioid addition in the UK because physicians prescribe more carefully and review more regularly. I didn't say it doesn't happen at all but the epidemic won't happen in the UK.