What was strange about the picture of her family, my Dd drew for the Dr

[Notthegoldenhourthebluehour]

Currently having issues with Dd, 6, suspected Pans/pandas, trying to establish if recent changes in behaviour could be down to having been ill or a trigger somehow resulting in psychological problems. Amongst many other things, the Dr asked Dd to draw a picture of our family. She did a normal, pretty average picture really. She drew me first, then her in the middle and Dh at the other side and our dog at the front sat down.
The Dr told me it was good she’d drawn herself in the middle but that he wanted to send a screenshot of her picture to a colleague
What can this mean? Any child psychologists here etc

Child psychologist here. Not an expert in this area but I believe one of the common features of pans/pandas is a rapid onset deterioration in fine motor skills. The picture you shared is very mildly delayed for a 6 year old conceptually but the motor control is adequate. Maybe he wants to compare with previous work?

Sounds like an attempt at the Kinetic Family Drawing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_family_drawing

If there is a query over PANS/PANDAS, please seek help from a functional practitioner. Throwing antibiotics at something like this 'to see if it works' may very well end up compounding the issue further.

I wouldn't make this kind of interpretation. It's a perfectly psychological normal pic by a 6 year old.

@DrRuthGalloway Delayed in what way? She turned 6 a few weeks ago
Yes, I’d read that too, but haven’t noticed any deterioration in motor skills I don’t think (thank goodness)

@haveagoharry It seems to be the course taken for this

@Trainham Is this true? So if a child draws themselves in the middle they either feel part of the family or like to split the family up, all so interesting

The previous poster included a link to save people having to Google :-)

In Our case child had experienced a sudden infection that was quick severe and then even once infection cleared after a few days they had hugh deterioration in fine motor control, balance,visual disturbances, regression in some tasks that they could previously do and emergence of one particular compulsive act. What helped was a combination of things( I think) new antibiotic , gut health - probiotics, good diet etc alongside reducing demands( stopped a lot of extra activities) and started play therapy to support the anxiety and behaviours … settled down A lot 2/3 months once the infection was definitely cleared and then continued with the play therapy and reduced activity until child was ready and happy to return. The compulsive act phased reduced and phased out after 3/4 months .Really hope things improve for you quickly!

Oh and sessions with a oesteopath !

Everyone person on the thread will be googling the same 😂

@Dreamingofthishouse Wow, you were very successful then, that’s great 🙏 yes, he has prescribed probiotics too and we go to a play therapist, although i’m not sure how much that’s helping to be honest
How was the osteopath able to help? What illness did your child have?
My Dd has anger/rage and ocd/intrusive thoughts, had separation anxiety very strongly at first (previously very confident & independent) constantly feels she needs a wee (no urine infections etc. She was ill back in March /April with vomiting and sleeping for days, but ok afterwards and then in June, she started to have nausea, hot all over (no real fever) but felt hot to the touch (still has that now on and off and nausea and tiredness) and tummy ache, she was also constipated -not sure if a connection. She started to not want to go to school, then a few weeks later it all changed-separation anxiety, the rage, awful thoughts and ocd, issues with clothes not feeling comfortable, not wanting to go out much-playgrounds, walk the dog

It will be, sadly and unjustly; Western medicine is not well (read: at all) educated in dealing with returning the human body to homeostasis. The best thing you can do is your own independent research so that you can make more informed decisions on your daughter's behalf, because unfortunately going purely off of what you've been told by a traditional medicine practitioner will likely not leave you fully informed (and I say that as a HCP myself).

Hi OP
I know this isn't what you asked, but I know some people who have DC with pans/pandas (they believe it was triggered by mould exposure). This author has been mentioned as v helpful.

Sorry can’t I help with the rest of it, but noticed your mention of Valerian.

often used for sleep problems, but please be aware it has a rare side effect of causing nightmares. Most people are fine, but something to be aware of.

Osteopaths are not recommended for infections.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteopathy/safety/

I was diagnosed with PANDAs when I was an early teen.

I'm 28 now. I still have all the symptoms. Still have TICs, anxiety, and other behaviours that would suggest some form of ND, either autism, ADHD or both.

I wonder now whether I did have PANDAs and this has caused me to have these life long symptoms or whether I was misdiagnosed.

It wasn't very know about when I was diagnosed and seems it still isn't today.

Sorry - not related to your DDs picture but I thought it was interesting. My six year old has also recently been diagnosed with autism. He has very bad anxiety too. The two of us are very very similar. The only difference is I have TICs and he doesn't.

Great your doctor is PANS/PANDAS aware. Our then-6-yo suddenly developed massive behavioural changes after a second Covid infection, as part of a wider LC diagnosis. Reading age and fine motor skills regression, and memory issues followed.

We’ve very much focused on rest (reduced school timetable for the last 2.5 years), improving sleep and gut health, and supplements to reduce inflammation. A specialist prescribed low-dose naltrexone (LDN) at the start of this year and, within weeks, we started to see our kiddo return to their usual self.

I hope you find help very soon. There are practitioners out there who are excellent at this stuff. Good luck xx

Which is why @PolaroidPrincess kindly created a link to the definition.

They do look at positioning and also the size of the adults, eg was one parent huge and the other tiny, was one parent closer than the other? Did she have hands or tiny hands if so she feels powerless did one parent have big hands if so they're in control

Still had to leave the thread to read it though?

@Unexpectedlysinglemum Thats interesting, hands seem all around the same size, she did tell him hers was a closed fist, which he asked her about, but then didn’t seem concerned with. She’s closer to me on the pic and when asked to draw her daddy, she said he’s small, which I laughed at as he’s the tallest. The dr said ‘You’re father is the smallest in the family?’ and she said to fit on the page, but looking at the paper, there looks like there is plenty of room. If one was drawn/thought to be smaller, this would imply?

@MindTheAbyss So sorry. Yes we talked about covid as we’ve likely had it twice in the last year, she still gets hot to the touch, some nausea and days when she says she’s tired. The Dr did say symptoms wouldn’t usually manifest in the ocd & rage, did your child have this, are they ok now?

@MindTheAbyss What is LDN and which supplements were given for inflammation? I did ask about this and sort of had to suggest myself to take anti histamines, he did say they can sometimes make a child’s behaviour worse though 😳unsure what to do really

@PeterCapaldiBae So sorry you had to go through that. Yes I’ve wondered about Dd and possible autism or adhd in the past, we also have neurodivergence in both sides of our family. I think the difference may be how suddenly it came on? As in, did you present these behaviours when younger or it all started suddenly in your early teens? I’m not 100% sure though, but have been researching it and trying to get my head around it all for a couple of months now