Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dad coming to the end and unreasonable brother

22 replies

foel · 14/08/2024 17:08

Dads been in hospital for 4 months now and its not looking good. To be honest, hes not ever going home.

Problem is my brother and I don't speak and when got taken it it got worse.

Bit of background. Brother and I are like chalk and cheese. I've been married 28 years got 2 lovely kids. Hes divorced, had multiple partners, got 4 kids by 3 ex-partners who he doesn't see (and gets chased for CSA for). Hes been in financial trouble, trouble with tax you name it. Few years ago he had a drink problem too - Dad didn't hear from him for months on end

Over the years I've sorted Dad affairs out. Got him mortgage, house when he got divorced. Got disabled grants, chair lift etc sorted too.

A few years ago brother re-appeared on the scene. Calmed down a lot got married. Suddently, Dad was his main priority.

BTW - he lives literally walking distance I live 45 mins away. Hes got no kids at home, I've got an 11 year old and an older one with Aspergers.

So anyway he came up with this "rota" where both myself and wife had to visit Dad so someone did it every day. Yeh right. Of course my wife had her own mother to look after. Also, at the time we were having a really hard time with our teen at the time with Aspergers being violent etc., There was no way.
I told him I couldn't commit to that because I had other commitments - accused me of making excuses. Whatever.

At the time, got threats, abuse from him. As did my wife. Told Dad - who as always swept it all under the carpet. So we don't speak.

Fast forward to 4 months ago. Dad has a fall at home. Brother goes there calls me and insists I get there too. My wife was in work, I had my daughter it was difficult. Cue more abuse and threats to stay away from Dad or else.

So I visit Dad in hospital but make sure hes not there. I did try to reach out to calm things for Dads sake but hes not interested.

Its going to be a nightmare if Dad goes into a home. Or worse when he finally does go.

Not sure what I can do about it all?

OP posts:
AgnesX · 14/08/2024 17:10

Have either of you got POA? Just make sure it's not shared and make sure you've got your bullet proof vest on.

Dartwarbler · 14/08/2024 17:44

LPOA is vital now. Don’t delay. Also, if you can get dad to make Will if he hasn’t

without that, it’ll come down to who is the oldest, if, and only if dad looses mental competency, and your operating under mental health act.

Aside from that, there’s not a great deal you can do if he doesn’t want to engage with you and only dictate. But first do try to engage “constructively and properly”

So, I would be aiming to have a “crucial conversation” with brother. Find somewhere public so it can’t turn into shouting match. Look up basics of a method called “Crucial Conversations” on line and prep for it.

you first need to establish common purpose. What are you both trying to achieve? Clearly you’d think that’d be you both want your dad in a place where his needs are met, he is comfortable, with company asap, and his risk of falls etc minimised. Dig and question brother until you can both agree what your common aim is

then ask him to explain why he wants you to visit so often and why he is dictating this? Listen. Let him tlak, don’t interrupt unless with question “why”, or “can you explain that”. You need him to tell “his story” as to why he’s doing what he’s doing. Why he’s telling you to do x,y, z. Don’t argue, actively listen. Summarise various parts back to him to ensure you understand.

once you understand his position, ask him to listen to you “tell your story” . Explain your position, explain why you don’t equate lots of visits with quality of care you give, why you feel so unhappy with him telling you what to do. Don’t go offfat tangents with stuff about past. Focus on just this issue. If he interrupts to argue then stop, remind him you listened to him without interrupting and then continue.

very often, just telling each other your stories about why you are stating the position you are, helps to iron out misunderstandings, misexpections and simply poor communication. That’s often the reasons for disagreements and falling outs, resentment.

then go back to your common purpose. Remind yourselves of those,

then work together about how you BOTH compromise your approach with each other to work better as a team in dealing with this

come up with a plan. A rota you can work to. Maybe use of a shared log online (we do this as siblings as all in different locations at least 45 mins form dad), regular WhatsApp calls when we share concerns about dad and who is doing what etc.

id say, even in close harmonious families, siblings do struggle when dealing with a suddenly aging parent needing support. Talking is imperative and so is all of you agreeing common purpose. It’ll not get easier if you can’t do that- issue like RESPECT forms , DNRs will rear their heads and all of those can be difficult conversations to have.

of course, if he doesn’t engage with a process to have a proper discussion, and continues just to want to dictate, then frankly firm boundaries and a reminder that he is no position to lecture you on what your duty is when he appeared to hav3 little sense of duty to his own family historically including his own children. And then disengage. Don’t go NC if you can possibly help it. It’ll cause dad so much distress and you, it’s a shit thing to do. Try to stay civil, firm boudaries a a little grey rock if needed.

3beesinmybonnet · 14/08/2024 18:30

Could you ask the hospital to contact you regarding you DDad, though they'll likely say no since your DB lives nearby so it makes sense that he is first point of contact. It's worth a try though, if you explain the situation to them.

I was in a similar situation with my DB. I blocked him on my phone and he was told contact was to be with my DH only, via email or if something was really urgent he could ring my DH. This stopped him being able to ring me and try to bully me into doing what he wanted. We built up a network of other people who could report on Ddad condition, so that we were always kept aware of any developments. Perhaps you could do something similar. Remember your DB can insist all he wants, you don't have to obey.

I don't agree with pp that going NC is "a shit thing to do". Sometimes it's necessary for the sake of your own mental health, and you don't have to tell your Ddad - it makes more sense for you and your Db to visit separately anyway.

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 18:40

Dartwarbler · 14/08/2024 17:44

LPOA is vital now. Don’t delay. Also, if you can get dad to make Will if he hasn’t

without that, it’ll come down to who is the oldest, if, and only if dad looses mental competency, and your operating under mental health act.

Aside from that, there’s not a great deal you can do if he doesn’t want to engage with you and only dictate. But first do try to engage “constructively and properly”

So, I would be aiming to have a “crucial conversation” with brother. Find somewhere public so it can’t turn into shouting match. Look up basics of a method called “Crucial Conversations” on line and prep for it.

you first need to establish common purpose. What are you both trying to achieve? Clearly you’d think that’d be you both want your dad in a place where his needs are met, he is comfortable, with company asap, and his risk of falls etc minimised. Dig and question brother until you can both agree what your common aim is

then ask him to explain why he wants you to visit so often and why he is dictating this? Listen. Let him tlak, don’t interrupt unless with question “why”, or “can you explain that”. You need him to tell “his story” as to why he’s doing what he’s doing. Why he’s telling you to do x,y, z. Don’t argue, actively listen. Summarise various parts back to him to ensure you understand.

once you understand his position, ask him to listen to you “tell your story” . Explain your position, explain why you don’t equate lots of visits with quality of care you give, why you feel so unhappy with him telling you what to do. Don’t go offfat tangents with stuff about past. Focus on just this issue. If he interrupts to argue then stop, remind him you listened to him without interrupting and then continue.

very often, just telling each other your stories about why you are stating the position you are, helps to iron out misunderstandings, misexpections and simply poor communication. That’s often the reasons for disagreements and falling outs, resentment.

then go back to your common purpose. Remind yourselves of those,

then work together about how you BOTH compromise your approach with each other to work better as a team in dealing with this

come up with a plan. A rota you can work to. Maybe use of a shared log online (we do this as siblings as all in different locations at least 45 mins form dad), regular WhatsApp calls when we share concerns about dad and who is doing what etc.

id say, even in close harmonious families, siblings do struggle when dealing with a suddenly aging parent needing support. Talking is imperative and so is all of you agreeing common purpose. It’ll not get easier if you can’t do that- issue like RESPECT forms , DNRs will rear their heads and all of those can be difficult conversations to have.

of course, if he doesn’t engage with a process to have a proper discussion, and continues just to want to dictate, then frankly firm boundaries and a reminder that he is no position to lecture you on what your duty is when he appeared to hav3 little sense of duty to his own family historically including his own children. And then disengage. Don’t go NC if you can possibly help it. It’ll cause dad so much distress and you, it’s a shit thing to do. Try to stay civil, firm boudaries a a little grey rock if needed.

It's very late to do LPA now, it's not a quick process.

Noras · 14/08/2024 18:54

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 18:40

It's very late to do LPA now, it's not a quick process.

? Surely it’s just a matter of getting a form completed and a doctor to sign off re capacity. The issue will be people to be notified ie brother. After that just send it off.

You need both financial and health POA. Otherwise social services and NHS will make best interest decisions.

It seems like your dad needs more support were he to leave hospital. At present he must still be receiving treatment because if he was palliative they would try to send him home or to a nursing home as it’s better. If your dad does need more care that will be where the issues arise as it might be a case of finding a care home which will have to be paid for by his assets. Reading between the lines it seems like your brother was worried that social service might say that your dad needs proper support eg a care home. This is why he nagged you to help visit.

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 18:57

@Noras - have you ever done an LPA? You don't need a doctor but the forms are not turned around quickly by the OPG.

tennesseewhiskey1 · 14/08/2024 19:03

Is he after your dad’s money?

Noras · 14/08/2024 19:15

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 18:57

@Noras - have you ever done an LPA? You don't need a doctor but the forms are not turned around quickly by the OPG.

Thanks - also was a qualified solicitor.

My father needed one and the best advice was to get a GP to sign off as knew my dad well and no issue re challenging his capacity. In these circs I would get a doctor at the hospital.

Once the forms are sent off - social services etc will talk to you as if already completed etc.

Lidlisthebusiness · 14/08/2024 19:17

@Noras gov.uk website says it can take up to 20 weeks to get one in place, providing there are no mistakes on the form, though it could obviously come through a bit quicker.

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 19:27

Lidlisthebusiness · 14/08/2024 19:17

@Noras gov.uk website says it can take up to 20 weeks to get one in place, providing there are no mistakes on the form, though it could obviously come through a bit quicker.

@Noras -I did them for my parents around 5 years ago. And DH and I are currently doing ours. Doctors etc will not speak to you until it's all signed off. And the admin at the OPG is chaotic, they send duplicate letters, no letters, letters dated May which arrive in August. Of the 4 DH & I are doing (2 each), 2 have been fully rubber stamped, 2 are still in process. We started in February. It's frustrating & slow.

Dartwarbler · 14/08/2024 22:31

luckylavender · 14/08/2024 18:40

It's very late to do LPA now, it's not a quick process.

Nope it definitely not too late. He still has mental competency as far as we know. He’s fallen and is frail but no mention of cognitive decline

so, it needs to be done now. It’s LPOA. They can be done fairly quickly by family and then witnessed and then sent off to register. It doesn’t need to be activated yet if dad still is capable. Yep, turnaround at office of guardianship may take time, but at least get it started asap.

he needs both. He needs to say who he wants to make decision re health, welfare, money and legal . Also the DNR views. Now before it IS too late with sudden decline. It may never be too late and he passes away with full mental competency (which everyone would hope), but dong it now will save huge issues later if thst isn’t the case.

Dartwarbler · 14/08/2024 22:33

Lidlisthebusiness · 14/08/2024 19:17

@Noras gov.uk website says it can take up to 20 weeks to get one in place, providing there are no mistakes on the form, though it could obviously come through a bit quicker.

20 weeks? Erm, right. Well that’s massively up on 2 years ago when it took about 6 weeks.
I think id be including a letter to say it’s urgent vs someone like ,e doing it at age of 55 in reasonably good health.

They definately want to avoid people not having them- the warden ship process is a mess and expensive. They don’t want people doing it,

foel · 15/08/2024 09:33

LPOA - wish I'd done one. Alas, he doesn't have capacity now.

OP posts:
foel · 15/08/2024 09:34

Sorry forgot to say after Dad went into hospital he went downhill rapidly. He recognises me about 20% of the time, doesn't know where he is etc.

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 15/08/2024 09:40

LPOA is not just signing a form!

Firstly the person has to have capacity and as OP has said, her DF does not.

Secondly it takes about 16 weeks for it to be processed. So if your relative doesn't have that sort of prognosis, it's not worth it.

AnnaMagnani · 15/08/2024 09:42

And no you can't add 'a letter saying it's urgent '

The new ones just go to the end of the queue.

If it's 20 weeks now it's getting worse not better, I last did one about a year ago.

foel · 15/08/2024 09:58

tennesseewhiskey1 · 14/08/2024 19:03

Is he after your dad’s money?

his wife certainly is....

OP posts:
foel · 15/08/2024 10:00

Dartwarbler · 14/08/2024 17:44

LPOA is vital now. Don’t delay. Also, if you can get dad to make Will if he hasn’t

without that, it’ll come down to who is the oldest, if, and only if dad looses mental competency, and your operating under mental health act.

Aside from that, there’s not a great deal you can do if he doesn’t want to engage with you and only dictate. But first do try to engage “constructively and properly”

So, I would be aiming to have a “crucial conversation” with brother. Find somewhere public so it can’t turn into shouting match. Look up basics of a method called “Crucial Conversations” on line and prep for it.

you first need to establish common purpose. What are you both trying to achieve? Clearly you’d think that’d be you both want your dad in a place where his needs are met, he is comfortable, with company asap, and his risk of falls etc minimised. Dig and question brother until you can both agree what your common aim is

then ask him to explain why he wants you to visit so often and why he is dictating this? Listen. Let him tlak, don’t interrupt unless with question “why”, or “can you explain that”. You need him to tell “his story” as to why he’s doing what he’s doing. Why he’s telling you to do x,y, z. Don’t argue, actively listen. Summarise various parts back to him to ensure you understand.

once you understand his position, ask him to listen to you “tell your story” . Explain your position, explain why you don’t equate lots of visits with quality of care you give, why you feel so unhappy with him telling you what to do. Don’t go offfat tangents with stuff about past. Focus on just this issue. If he interrupts to argue then stop, remind him you listened to him without interrupting and then continue.

very often, just telling each other your stories about why you are stating the position you are, helps to iron out misunderstandings, misexpections and simply poor communication. That’s often the reasons for disagreements and falling outs, resentment.

then go back to your common purpose. Remind yourselves of those,

then work together about how you BOTH compromise your approach with each other to work better as a team in dealing with this

come up with a plan. A rota you can work to. Maybe use of a shared log online (we do this as siblings as all in different locations at least 45 mins form dad), regular WhatsApp calls when we share concerns about dad and who is doing what etc.

id say, even in close harmonious families, siblings do struggle when dealing with a suddenly aging parent needing support. Talking is imperative and so is all of you agreeing common purpose. It’ll not get easier if you can’t do that- issue like RESPECT forms , DNRs will rear their heads and all of those can be difficult conversations to have.

of course, if he doesn’t engage with a process to have a proper discussion, and continues just to want to dictate, then frankly firm boundaries and a reminder that he is no position to lecture you on what your duty is when he appeared to hav3 little sense of duty to his own family historically including his own children. And then disengage. Don’t go NC if you can possibly help it. It’ll cause dad so much distress and you, it’s a shit thing to do. Try to stay civil, firm boudaries a a little grey rock if needed.

I've tried. I tried to reach out. I've tried to say OK just let me know when you're going to hospital so we avoid each other so theres no unpleasantness.

All I get is "No. Stay away"

OP posts:
foel · 15/08/2024 10:05

3beesinmybonnet · 14/08/2024 18:30

Could you ask the hospital to contact you regarding you DDad, though they'll likely say no since your DB lives nearby so it makes sense that he is first point of contact. It's worth a try though, if you explain the situation to them.

I was in a similar situation with my DB. I blocked him on my phone and he was told contact was to be with my DH only, via email or if something was really urgent he could ring my DH. This stopped him being able to ring me and try to bully me into doing what he wanted. We built up a network of other people who could report on Ddad condition, so that we were always kept aware of any developments. Perhaps you could do something similar. Remember your DB can insist all he wants, you don't have to obey.

I don't agree with pp that going NC is "a shit thing to do". Sometimes it's necessary for the sake of your own mental health, and you don't have to tell your Ddad - it makes more sense for you and your Db to visit separately anyway.

Problem is Dad doesn't have capacity so its pointless me telling him anything.
To be honest, a lot of this is Dads fault, same thing happened years ago and brother threatened me physically. I explained to Dad that I didn't need him to take sides but he needed to tell brother to cut it out. I even said look for everyones sake have a word because I will call the Police if it happens again.
And it has of course.

At the time Dad did nothing. That's him all over. The more people he can have "on the hook" the better. He didn't want to risk upsetting brother and would rather have us two not speaking but still have 2 of us to run around.

So yes I know what you mean about mental health. Dad caused this so why should I now have all the stress of visiting in hospital and bumping into brother.

If I did then I know I'd not have an issue and wouldn't cause any trouble. Brother I can say 100% would get violent. I've seen it before. Its an awful situation.

You can imagine the funeral can't you? Can guarantee brother would try to say I couldn't come.

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 15/08/2024 10:07

Honestly OP at this point I would give up and protect yourself.

Any inheritance is already in his will, or if not will go by intestacy law.

Visit as you see fit, check with the medical team they aren't making decisions your Dad wouldn't have wanted.

And promise yourself never to speak to your brother again once this is over.

AnnaMagnani · 15/08/2024 10:08

Cross posting with you- think about leaving the funeral to your brother and doing a remembrance separately if you need to.

foel · 15/08/2024 18:00

Interesting development - hospital called me tonight (I'm down as next of kin) because he's been ill today. Stable fortunately.

I'm planning to go there tomorrow daytime. Thing is I guess they've told me this as next of kin not my brother.

Should I tell him? Not even sure if I can because he's blocked me.

Part of me thinks no you've done your best to keep me away from Dad so why should I? Then I think no why be like him.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread