To think this is why the high street is failing?

[MiamiWindMachine]

I’m off on holiday in a couple of days, so thought I’d go up to the big shopping centre for a couple of last minute things.

In the massive H&M, all the tills bar one had been converted to self-service. The ones on the floor I was on were ALL closed. I went down to the lower floor and there was a huge queue, because no one could work out the machines. There was a step to remove security tags, and people couldn’t work out whether this was only for those plastic tags or if there was some flag on the barcodes for lower value items. Someone else was trying to process a return via these tills. When a member of staff eventually appeared, she confirmed returns could only be processed at a manned till. The customer pointed out that there were no manned tills. The staff member had no idea who to ask about it, then disappeared to find someone, so the queue was getting even longer.

I was on the way out about 15 minutes before closing time and went past M&S. I thought “I wonder if the Bureau de Change is still open” and went to check. The woman saw me approach and had a pained look on her face, saying “Arrgghh, I’ve just cashed uuuppp!” I was a bit taken aback, but said “Oh well, never mind. What time do you close, for future reference?” She then reluctantly admitted that she was supposed to be open until 8, but said “But I do start cashing up at around 7.30”. I was about to ask why when she started saying, “It’s fine; I’ll do it, I’ll do it”, like she was doing me a massive favour. I tried to pay on Revolut and she said “We can’t take those cards!”, as if it was somehow obvious. I asked about Apple Pay and she said, “No, it has to be a proper bank card or credit card”. I therefore went to pay with my credit card and she said, “You do know we have to charge a fee for these, don’t you?” I said I didn’t have a choice given she’d rejected two other payment methods.

I then went down to foods to grab a ready meal and some wine. I went to a manned till as I had alcohol and the girl said, “Oh, could you go to the self-service? It’s just that I’m closing this one”. I asked about the alcohol and she said, “I can approve that from here; it’s just that it’s easier for me”.

I feel like we’re constantly told in the media “Use it or lose it” re: the high street; how sad it would be if we lost the personal touch. From what I could see yesterday, one store has done everything possible to eliminate personal interaction, while in the other, the staff are more bothered about their convenience than the customers’. Is it any wonder that people would rather click a couple of buttons to get something delivered?

It’s unusual not to have a back account at 15? Though. Most have accounts and cards from secondary age.
We ask that Guides have a card for trips as we’ve found some places don’t take cash - shake shack was one I recall.

@Beautiful3 is assume they'd have a bank account???? I got one when I was 11!

I had a bank account at 11, I find people who refuse to accept we're in 2024 not the 70's really bizarre to be honest

Of course we can do it, we don’t want to. There have been numerous posts explaining why we don’t like self checkouts, and I would add that they put people out of work but make life harder for the customer. We’re not seeing any reduction in prices, just feeling more ripped off.
As for the name calling of people who don’t agree with you, that’s just rude.

I always use them where they're an option. But many people don't understand them / have issues with them. And if there's no staff available, then how do you get assistance with the thing not working / being confusing?

And if there's no manned tills, then you need to be able to process all transactions through self service. I mean, come on, it's 2024 after all....

However, aside from my own preference to not speak to people, there's another issue.

More self service = less retail jobs = more unemployment = less wages = less money being spent in shops.

I leave the house at 7 and get home at 6 5 days a week. The last thing I want to do at the weekend is go shopping to actual shops. Internet shopping before I have my tea or before I goto bed? Yes please. Physical shops don't always have what I want either.

In my small Somerset town a lot of shops only take cash, this is incredibly annoying as I don't have cash on me and the cash point is rarely working.
Why go out for a miserable shopping experience when you have every shop on your computer.
I shop from places that I know have clothes that fit me. I hate changing rooms and the whole experience.
The only shops I will go to are things like kitchen shops, framing shops, antique shops and IKEA.

Another point is that there are no ethics in the rampant consumerism at the crux of the world economy. Online shopping is hideously bad for the environment, from the source of goods, especially fast fashion and technology which update so fast at the cost of resources and how the end products are sourced and manufactured, which often involves slave labour in other countries. It impacts health, well-being and contributes to land fill. Transportation and manufacturing and to-ing and fro-ing also impacts traffic infrastructure.

"Green taxes" and carbon credits etc are a good way of milking more money out if corporations but the costs are passed onto the consumer. We then have the catch 22 of people working in these industries not being able to afford the fruits of their labours due to COL crisis and wage stagnation. Fewer consumers, more unemployed, less money to go round at the bottom of the pile.

End result decimated towns, higher crime, "going shopping" is less and less attractive etc etc - it looks like the ultimate zero sum game to me.

Even the secondhand market is being "gentrified" and pricing out those that relied on it because they couldn't afford new good quality stuff. So now they have to go to Primark and online for fast fashion.

Our version of capitalism is actually the world's biggest pyramid schemes - and those are illegal for a reason.....

All those saying “ oh it’s much easier to shop online and I’ve not been into town in 15 years”…. These are the same people who love working from home and don’t answer the door, aren’t they? 😁
Some of us need to speak to other humans on a day to day basis. Just normal friendly interaction, nothing fancy.
Im lucky in that I still have a butcher, been going there over a decade and it’s a pleasure to pop in and have a bit of a chat while I’m buying something.
I love WearyAuldWomans story about the offer of a hug- that’s so nice.

I can do it but there is always an issue. Always. It’s stressful and annoying. So I choose not and don’t do high street shopping anymore.

Plus (last rant, I promise lol) the proliferation of online shopping generates so much data it's mind boggling and is one of the world's most valuable commodities. In addition it's fertile ground for cybercrime. I don't shop online at all if I can help it now.

Realistically, I think the "old" High Street is long gone and can't be saved. People saying we need better public transport don't appreciate that people won't use buses that are too often unreliable and time wasting. They either want to use a car or will shop online. We've had retail parks and out of town supermarkets for a few decades now, and we've had online shopping for a decade or more. The genie is out of the bottle and won't be going back!

Town centres need to be repurposed to be where people live, i.e. we need to convert huge areas of the 80s/90s shops into residential. That will rejuvenate town centres and encourage smaller scale shops aimed at those living there. Alongside that, cafes and restaurants to cater for the younger generations alongside night clubs etc. Even better are the historic or picturesque towns which need to capitalise on the tourist/attraction market, even if only day trippers.

We'll never have enough people going into town by bus to keep big department stores and fashion shops viable - maybe in the biggest city centres like London, Manchester, etc., but not in smaller cities and most towns.

People need to wake up and smell the coffee. We need to move forward and not keep harping back to the old days.

University towns will probably be more viable as lots of student flat blocks are being built/converted in them, which makes smaller shops, cafes and restaurants viable. Students won't generally be driving to out of town shopping malls every week, so "need" local amenities including shops.

I think this is what is driving "anti car" policies for town centres, particularly those with universities. People with cars need to drive to out of town retail parks and supermarkets. Leave the town centres for people who live in town centres. Those without cars will have to use buses to go either to the town centre or the retail park/supermarket.

It was a sad day when that place closed. Went there for years (always got the quiche and mixed salad!). They didn’t want to pass on the increased costs to their customers, so made the decision to close.
Neal Street East (though that went yonks ago), the Tea Shop, sure there’s others - it used to be such a lovely and different/interesting street

Bar the fact that we shouldn’t have to! We don’t work there, if shops aren’t prepared to provide a decent service, then it’s on them if they find themselves without customers.

I already have a job thanks.

The other reason I’ve ditched the high street is the cost of parking. It’s extortionate.

Nope. I try to avoid going into our city centre because driving and parking is an absolute ball ache. I drive to the out of town supermarkets and retail parks instead. It's nothing to do with not wanting to leave the house.

That is not the issue though. The issue is that some things can’t be performed without a staff member’s assistance (returns, removal of security tags, restricted items checks…) but staff is not available.

@taxguru While I agree to a degree, where does that leave tourist destinations? I live in one of those and it's dying on its arse with little for visitors and less to sustain residents.....

You also need a member of staff when something invariably goes wrong-items too light, alcohol verification…or machine just feels like playing up. I don’t want to wait for help and I also don’t like the game of Tetris as you balance your items in the area they have to go in before you move them to a bag.

Hate it. Not doing it.

Oh, and University students, of which we have thousands, don't seem to go anywhere much other than bars and clubs.....

It’s not the self service I mind so much it’s the lack of stock that annoys me and the loss of actual shops to go into.
I used to love an occasional mooch round the shops and would have lunch and buy a few bits. We only have Primark left on our high street ( I live in a city) it’s all charity shops, takeaway shops doing a roaring Deliveroo/ Just Eat trade or vape shops now. We used to have Debenhams and John Lewis and a lovely bookshop, our Marks and Spencer is away to close. Further back we had House of Fraser, Dorothy Perkins and other fashion places, Mothercare, BHS, Littlewoods, C&A and Woolworths. The last couple of times I went into Debenhams and John Lewis ( before they closed down) I asked for something only to be told they didn’t have it in stock but I could order it online, I was in the shop with money to spend and they were happy for me to leave without making a purchase. Needless to say I did order online, the Debenhams item I did purchase from them but the John Lewis item ( quite an expensive purchase) I purchased cheaper from Amazon.

Waste of time. Even the cafe in M& S had gone self service and most of the tills. Haven't been since.

Nope I work full time in a neighbouring city.

@taxguru I agree. Internet shopping is here to stay and although there are extremes, most people do a mixture. I probably do 70% online/ 30% in person although food I do mostly in person. Shopping has become more transactional with more people not really wanting to just “have a wonder round the shops” as a leisure activity. If I want something pretty standard like “black trainers” it’s far easier to just look and compare online. That switch to hybrid means that high streets will never again have the footfall they once had and there is a huge surplus of retail space in most towns that needs to be repurposed to reflect new leisure habits or just converted to residential with more “local service” type shops.