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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be frustrated by teen relative

28 replies

trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:08

I have a close relative in her mid-teens, about 20 years younger than me. I looked after her a lot when she was small and our relationship was close and loving. She's always been very shy and sensitive but I poured a lot of time and love and 1:1 attention into her and accepted this was just how she was. We are on the whole a family of quiet introverts - and I now suspect quite a bit of ASD - so it wasn't an issue. I was always happy to put in the time to coax her out of herself.

The problem now is that she seems to have settled into her shyness, to the point that she really doesn't speak or engage at all if she can help it. She first met my partner over ten years ago, and she has resolutely never spoken to him. Genuinely. He's tried so hard over the years to build a relationship and she continues to act as if he isn't even in the room. She does this with my brother's partner too. She managed it with at least one of her grandparents (I don't know the other side of the family well enough to comment) until their death. It's one thing for a four-year-old to be quiet and shy at first meeting but when it's been going on into GCSE age it starts to get weird. She's never been encouraged to engage and her parents tend to speak for her. I've gently tried to broach it with them but they are very much 'this is how she is/she's young for her age' and have volunteered without my asking that they feel she is NT.

From the age of about 8 she's always just brought a tablet or a book along to get-togethers and sat in the corner totally disengaged from everything. If she stays at our house she just hides in her room, especially if my partner's about. We'd love to include her but she either doesn't know how to take part or really doesn't want to. Given that I've been told she is NT I don't feel I can treat/think of her as ND, so I struggle to know how to proceed without interpreting her behaviour as rudeness. I'm upset that I put so much energy into trying to maintain a relationship with her when she won't even acknowledge the other people in my immediate family. FWIW it's hard even for me to draw her out these days. I'd love to have a positive relationship with her as she enters adulthood but it feels futile and has done for quite some time.

I don't think this is personal - in that she has few friends and doesn't engage in extracurricular stuff, clubs activities... she either prefers to be solitary or knows no other way. But it makes me sad. I think she might be surprised and upset if we were to drift apart but I'm struggling to know how to go on.

OP posts:
RantyMcRanterton · 12/08/2024 22:15

Given that selective mutism is an anxiety thing rather than shyness or rudeness I think you need to bring yourself away from feeling personally aggrieved. Not that I am diagnosing, of course, but what you have described is almost textbook.

Carry on being the wonderful aunty you are.

Original poster
trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:15

I'm not sure what I'm asking here... I guess AIBU to start finding this hurtful? Or how can I improve things with her/change the situation or my attitude to it? I'm finding it very sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:19

RantyMcRanterton · 12/08/2024 22:15

Given that selective mutism is an anxiety thing rather than shyness or rudeness I think you need to bring yourself away from feeling personally aggrieved. Not that I am diagnosing, of course, but what you have described is almost textbook.

Carry on being the wonderful aunty you are.

this is useful to hear. Thank you. Yes, my instinct is that my veering into taking it personally is not helpful for anyone, but on the other hand I don't know if it's patronising of me to armchair diagnose her when no diagnosis has been made and her parents wouldn't be open to pursuing anything like that. I will try to keep channels open between me and her.

OP posts:
RantyMcRanterton · 12/08/2024 22:19

I am sure it is hurtful but if you can change how you look at the behaviour it will help. Try to tell yourself she isn't being rude or ignorant, she literally cannot speak in front of your partner, for whatever reason.

RantyMcRanterton · 12/08/2024 22:20

You are so caring, what a decent person you are.

mdinbc · 12/08/2024 22:22

I might have a more serious talk with her parents. I have a nephew that was similar, he was quiet to the point of not speaking at school, and finally dropping out. He is 23 now, living in his room and not engaging with his own family anymore. He obviously has some mental health issues, and they are finally being recognized and addressed.

We also heard, 'oh, he's just shy." Earlier intervention and some social training would have helped him not get to a stage of crisis.

fourelementary · 12/08/2024 22:24

If you’re close- can’t you talk to her alone about it? How old is she? If 14-15 she may still come out of this stage but if 18-19 I’d be more concerned this is the reality.
Try to ascertain if it’s a can’t or a won’t scenario for her- if she can’t open up and talk then she’s likely ND and it’s not personal towards you or your partner. If she’s NT then it’s a won’t and that’s disrespectful and hurtful. Just because her parents say she is NT doesn’t mean that’s true…

Original poster
trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:39

mdinbc · 12/08/2024 22:22

I might have a more serious talk with her parents. I have a nephew that was similar, he was quiet to the point of not speaking at school, and finally dropping out. He is 23 now, living in his room and not engaging with his own family anymore. He obviously has some mental health issues, and they are finally being recognized and addressed.

We also heard, 'oh, he's just shy." Earlier intervention and some social training would have helped him not get to a stage of crisis.

thank you. I'd really hate this for her. I'd struggle to have the conversation with her dad but I meet up one-on-one with her mum and I think she could probably be more open to it. I'll give it a go.

OP posts:
Original poster
trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:42

fourelementary · 12/08/2024 22:24

If you’re close- can’t you talk to her alone about it? How old is she? If 14-15 she may still come out of this stage but if 18-19 I’d be more concerned this is the reality.
Try to ascertain if it’s a can’t or a won’t scenario for her- if she can’t open up and talk then she’s likely ND and it’s not personal towards you or your partner. If she’s NT then it’s a won’t and that’s disrespectful and hurtful. Just because her parents say she is NT doesn’t mean that’s true…

indeed. I think her parents are really resistant to the idea that there is anything going on although recently have seemed to recognise she is struggling with anxiety. If I put in a lot of time I think I might be able to draw her out on this.

OP posts:
ProudScoutMum · 12/08/2024 22:57

Have you considered talking to her in an alternative way? Text message, email, even a physical letter. It would be a way to open communication between you and her. If you wanted to tell her you are feeling excluded or hurt by her actions you could take the time to say it more gently and know you are giving her the space to respond rather than expecting a response from her on the spot. If she wants to be rude she won't answer, if she just needs time to find the words you have given her a great way to do that.

One of ours is much more talkative via message than she is in person, if left to her own devices she can go literally days and speak to nobody. I start a conversation and because she can reply in her time she answers. The boys answer with one word answers usually.

LlamaNoDrama · 12/08/2024 23:53

No pressure is the way to go and telling someone who can't speak they've upset you is only going to make them feel worse.
I'd agree it sounds like selective (situational!) mutism. It's not personal. It's difficult and once you haven't spoken to someone for a while it just gets harder and harder to then speak because it then becomes a big deal and draws attention which is horrifying.

Look at the SMIRA site they have lots of info and advice.

Janedoe82 · 12/08/2024 23:58

Sounds like selective mutism.
Also good chance at least one of her parents are neuro diverse too.
Just accept her as she is.

Drigante · 13/08/2024 00:18

Development is not linear. Teens' brains go through massive changes. Even the most socially skilled teens can become painfully self conscious and struggle, and that same development stage can be an almost unbearable burden for YP who are already more anxious or who have skill gaps.

Keep being friendly without pressuring, and keep the door open to her "coming back" to you when she can. Accept her as she is, don't try to change her because if her brain can possibly spin your interaction with her as criticism, it will. That is just her brain doing its thing, it's not a personal failing on her part.

Assume she is doing the best she can. I'm sure she still likes you, but at the moment perhaps she needs you to be completely undemanding and nonjudgmental. She won"t always be this age, her brain will develop and grow.

DenimSnails · 13/08/2024 00:35

Don't take it personally, she's a teenager. Just stay in touch and let her take the lead. She's your niece, not a social acquaintance.

OriginalUsername2 · 13/08/2024 00:46

I question why you need so much from a teenage girl that’s not your dd, to the point that it’s frustrating you and making you sad.

If I think about this with my own dd during her awkward stage the last thing she would need is an aunty(?) being so aware of everything she’s doing in a social setting, not being happy with it and pushing to change her.

Original poster
trickyfamily · 13/08/2024 19:53

OriginalUsername2 · 13/08/2024 00:46

I question why you need so much from a teenage girl that’s not your dd, to the point that it’s frustrating you and making you sad.

If I think about this with my own dd during her awkward stage the last thing she would need is an aunty(?) being so aware of everything she’s doing in a social setting, not being happy with it and pushing to change her.

I don't think you can have read my posts properly if this is your takeaway. I've really tried to communicate that I love this kid very much and am one of the few who is able/willing/permitted to get the whole her. She and I have never once discussed this issue of hers.

This is not a teenage 'awkward stage', this has been status quo for over a decade and is only becoming more marked as she gets older. Of course I am aware of her in a social setting: by conspicuously never speaking, she sets the dynamic, whether she means to or not (and I really don't think she does). Everybody loves her and wants her company but I don't think it's unreasonable to feel deeply concerned and confused as we see that she's not 'growing out' of her shyness, but becoming more entrenched in it.

Her parents say there's nothing atypical about her, but if this is true at what point do we begin to treat her silence as rudeness rather than attempt to accommodate differences they say do not exist?

I've had some really kind and helpful replies on this thread which have helped me orient myself with what might be going on a little bit, so I'm very very grateful for the generosity and insight of other posters.

OP posts:
Original poster
trickyfamily · 13/08/2024 20:01

Drigante · 13/08/2024 00:18

Development is not linear. Teens' brains go through massive changes. Even the most socially skilled teens can become painfully self conscious and struggle, and that same development stage can be an almost unbearable burden for YP who are already more anxious or who have skill gaps.

Keep being friendly without pressuring, and keep the door open to her "coming back" to you when she can. Accept her as she is, don't try to change her because if her brain can possibly spin your interaction with her as criticism, it will. That is just her brain doing its thing, it's not a personal failing on her part.

Assume she is doing the best she can. I'm sure she still likes you, but at the moment perhaps she needs you to be completely undemanding and nonjudgmental. She won"t always be this age, her brain will develop and grow.

Thank you. I think this is the advice I would rationally give myself but am finding it hard in the moment, especially as recently it's really affected my partner and my own child. I feel far more confident now in keeping the door open for her and taking on board other points made by PPs:

  • that teenage years are hard and might well exacerbate long-standing issues associated with anxiety
  • to seek other ways to communicate her. I actually know she would like more contact via whatsapp so I will start taking the initiative with that
  • to educate myself on selective/situational mutism and to hold that gently in mind inasfar as it is useful to our relationiship, but not to seek to diagnose her with anything.
OP posts:
bergamotorange · 13/08/2024 20:04

trickyfamily · 12/08/2024 22:15

I'm not sure what I'm asking here... I guess AIBU to start finding this hurtful? Or how can I improve things with her/change the situation or my attitude to it? I'm finding it very sad.

Yes, yabu finding it 'hurtful'. It isn't about you.

How about thinking about what it is like from your niece's perspective?

It does sound sad, but more for your niece than for you.

HiCandles · 13/08/2024 20:08

She sounds very much like my cousin. You couldn't have a conversation with her at all. She hid herself away at events. Years went by where the extended family were expected to pretend not to notice that she showed signs of being ND. The parents kept insisting NT. Once she moved to a sixth form college, which must've had much better staff than her previous schools to pick up on it, she was assessed and diagnosed with ASD. Now at 25 having organised herself coping strategies she's actually able to participate in family gatherings, can say a few socially appropriate things to relatives and has a boyfriend. It's been lovely to see her develop.
I think it might be worth speaking to her directly OP, perhaps over WhatsApp? You could say you watched something about ASD or read something and it made you wonder about her and does she think anything applies?

GrumpyPanda · 13/08/2024 20:26

One more voice to say this kid is ill-served by her parents and badly needs therapy. My lovely, ferociously intelligent niece has selective mutism so bad when I gave her a duplicate present one year she was unable to communicate to the store she wanted to swap it forvsonething else and I instead ended up getting a refund. In retrospect, this started when she was only a toddler but I didn't recognize it then. Thankfully she's getting decent therapeutic support, including real-life exercises, and school is making allowances, such as allowing her to turn in presentations in writing. Without that I imagine it could end up messing up her grades quite a bit as well.

Amuseaboosh · 13/08/2024 20:43

She sounds like my 16 year old daughter. Trust me, your 16 year old relative is feeling this a lot more than you.
Where do I fit?
Why can't I be like everyone else?
What's wrong with me?
Will I ever feel normal?
Will anyone ever love me?

Be there, unassuming, with love and acceptance. You're reaching her. She wouldn't spend time with you otherwise. Keep your compassion, and she will continue on her journey and value you for your unconditional love.

I'd also say she is ND, my daughter is. Her social tolerance/battery is at zero most days. She is a true introvert, and her book and her knitting go EVERYWHERE with her.

Octavia64 · 13/08/2024 20:49

I have selective mutism.

It can be associated with ND but NT people can have it as well. I am certified NT.

It's not about you. You are taking personally something that is an expression of her anxiety.

chiffontalks · 13/08/2024 20:55

I was like your teen relative. Selected mutism with two close relatives' husbands. I was in my late teens early twenties. They're nice, funny, decent blokes, so it wasn't them. I felt awkward and shy.

Still barely speak to them decades later. I like them very much, funny enough! They just don't know it. I was diagnosed with ASD as an older adult.

mimblewimble · 13/08/2024 21:20

My (autistic) DD is 15 and just like this. She finds it excruciating even to talk to aunties/grandparents, even friends if she doesn't see them frequently.

It's not personal. She just literally can't speak to them, or make eye contact. I'm sure she wants to be able to. She spends a lot of time in her room, and takes a book or knitting to family gatherings.

If your niece is like my DD then regular in person contact is important. Can you find things to do alongside where the pressure to have conversation is very low? I watch a lot of TV series with my DD and she can often be quite relaxed and chatty in that situation. Is there something she's into that you could do together that's not based around talking?

If your niece likes using WhatsApp, I'd suggest keeping it really casual and be aware esp if she is ND she might struggle to know what to say. DD sends me a lot of stickers/emojis and pictures of the cat. But often doesn't reply to direct questions.

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 13/08/2024 21:28

Gosh that’s tough - is she getting help or are her parents in denial about there being a problem? Realistically once she’s left the school system, getting help will be hard. Training and jobs are going to be tough if she can’t talk to people she doesn’t know well.