to ask about pay negotiation at local authorities?

[stressedout1994]

DP is a grad apprentice at a local authority,and is currently paid £32000 (not very much in London!) She has just been offered a job internally that she really wants (within her practice area) but the salary offered is £31,000. The role was advertised (internally only) at between £30-40,000.

They've offered her the role at £31,000 (next pay grade up from what she is now but technically less money). The new grade (grade 6, she's currently grade 5) spans from £30k ('bottom of grade') - 39k ('top of grade; 103%) and she wants the mid-grade £35k.

I am private sector so find this confusing and don't understand the politics of the pay grades. I have heard some places expect people to just go in at the bottom. I think this is very unreasonable as she has plenty of relevant experience (prior to joining the local authority), is an internal hire, etc.

How can she negotiate the £35k? The hiring manager emailed her stating the offer and asking her not to discuss internally (there was one other candidate) and flagging that she's in the office tomorrow to discuss. To me, this signals that she is ready to negotiate?

Someone more knowledgeable about local govt please help!

Thank you x

She can try to negotiate but within civil service/local authorities it’s difficult, it goes by pay scales and so you start at the bottom of it

I started at a local authority last year and it's their policy that everyone goes in at the lowest point in the pay band.
It's exceptional circumstances that they'd offer higher than that.
I'd suggest to go for it as the wages will go up each year.

Hmm, it may be that they are prepared to offer her a nominal pay rise, something like 5-10% above her current salary, but not much more. I don't think they could reasonably expect her to take a cut within her existing organisation.

See if there's a workforce development strategy on their website, my local authority has one of these and it specifically says that hiring managers are able to offer higher salaries to get the right candidate.

It isn’t policy to offer bottom of the grade if current salary is above that salary and our LG rules used to say next increment up.Who would take the job for a pay decrease ? She should be offered the next increment up. So around £32-33,000 would be normal as she’s already an employee. £35,000 is a big jump and unlikely. However she should get annual increments and a pay award from April if she started in Sept, if not, factor that in. Does the apprenticeship not lead to a similarly paid job? Has she finished her qualifications?

I work in an arms length body that follows civil service pay guide and although advertised as "bands" you don't get to currently progress through the band to a higher pay scale. The only way of getting more money is promotion or cost of living pay rises. You can negotiate entry into the band above the minimum though esp if taking the new job effectively means a payout. We've had new people start in positions above the minimum of thd band where previous payment was higher.

I recruit in the public sector and am always willing to negotiate within the set scale for the right candidate. I have appointed at top of scale before. Depends how much leeway/delegated power the hiring person has.

If she’s moving onto the pay point above where she is currently, they should adjust where she goes on the pay spine to make sure she gets a (small) pay rise.

So if she’s currently at the top of a 5, they should put her 3/4 points up the grade 6, if that makes sense. It might only be a small increase for now, but she’ll continue to get her increments and earn more over the next few years.

@stressedout1994 what your daughter needs to do is find the LAs pay policy. She may have to ask HR but the policy should clearly defined the rules on promotion/progression.

In the CS it’s usually 10% or min of the grade, which ever is higher.

She absolutely should negotiate. I’ve previously negotiated coming in near the top of the band when moving between LAs.

It doesn't hurt to ask, especially if there is no other candidate. It is either a promotion or it isn't and I wouldn't expect to pick up additional responsibilities and take a pay cut.
I find LA pay scales interesting. In the NHS the top of band 5 is still below the bottom of band 6.

On a £8000 pay grade, with a young person, I’m not sure they would go to mid way. I’m not sure if she’s still an apprentice or not. A pay rise yes, but others on the pay grade with more experience have to be considered. She should not leapfrog them if she’s less experience and qualifications. We don’t have that info.

I recently got a new job within local authority in a different department. The job was advertised at a lower grade but I successfully negotiated a higher spinal column point within that grade (as my previous role was on the grade above)
Definitely worth a try!

She should have got the next increment up as she's already working there.
If she was an external hire they start you at the bottom but internal hires aren't usually expected to take a pay cut where grades overlap a bit.

Hi ladies, thank you this is all really useful... @Fluffyhoglets (great name btw) do you have direct first-hand experience of this? @GradGirl is it worth just giving it a go? Only one other candidate interviewed (also an apprentice) and I think it would seem irrational to give it to an inferior candidate over c.£4k...?!

Yes. And in fact moving from one LA to another I got offered the next increment up as I was already in the local authority system as it were.

When people change roles within - they get the next increment up if it's a promotion.

Does the £32,000 currently include any allowances such as essential car (which would get discounted). Normally on promotion you move across and possibly up one (if on pay scales with in-grade steps). Mid/top is normally someone coming in with lots of experience at that grade or above - because as experience gained they automatically move up).

@stressedout1994 , yes, definitely ask. Prepare a case for it, write a few bullet points down to aid you if it’s face to face. Otherwise just construct an email with your request/justification for it. Good luck 🤞.