To think it's ok to want to travel at 70mph on the motorway...

[JacquesHarlow]

...or am I now completely unreasonable, and the Highway Code is irrelevant?

Hear me out if you will:

I have done a LOT of driving in the past two weeks. M1, A1, A23, M25, M40, M6, you name it.

I am middle aged, F, live in Surrey, for what any of that is worth. I am also it seems one of the stranger folk...in that when I join a motorway, I drive at 70mph on the dot. I also stay in the left lane until overtaking.

AIBU for doing this?

It seems so, judging by the habits of hundreds of road users I encountered, who come onto the motorway and automatically slide into lane 3 of 4, or lane 2 of 3. And sit there for absolutely ages, at around 60 mph.

I kid you not, 60mph.

It's maddening. I am driving at 70mph, in lane 1. It is clear in front of me.

Next to me is someone doing 60 mph. I know this because I am coming up on them quickly. I cannot however undertake them - this is against the Highway Code.

So I indicate, check it's clear, move out to lane 2 behind them. I then look to move to lane 3 to overtake.

Only I can't move over to lane 3, because there is someone doing 60 (or maybe less), right alongside them. Not overtaking, just cruising next to them in their own little lane.

So I indicate again, move out to lane 4. Where of course it takes me 30 seconds or so to overtake, at which point someone is barrelling down on me wanting to do 80mph in their private fast lane. (I'm fine with this, I assert my right to overtake legally etc).

So that's three lane changes to overtake two cars who due to their speed (and the highway code's rules) should be sitting in lane 1.

Why do people do this?

I notice that when I've brought this up years ago on here, or when I've spoken to folk in real life, people often say

"It's more dangerous to do all that 'weaving about' than stay in a lane"
"I'm not going to get trapped in a lorry sandwich"
"People join constantly on motorways and I don't want to have to move over"

OK, great.

So you're going to make me change three lanes, just because you want your own little personal bubble on the motorway, and are happy to be a rolling roadblock?

I think middle lane hoggers are not only selfish, but actually dangerous.

But AIBU?

I'm convinced that the whole reason for bad motorway driving is because learners are not allowed on the motorway so 90% of the people driving on them currently have had no experience with an instructor.
Of course there will always be some who drive like idiots.

I just undertake them. Hell mend them.

where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right.

Where lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds - seems to be the fundamental part of that exception though.
Fine to do when traffic is congested and all lanes are moving at around 40-50 and then one lane speds up for a moment so of course you overtake cars on your right.

It does not mean when the motorway is clearer and you are bombing down the inside lane at 70 and someone is sitting in the middle lane doing 50.

Your examples are different

Thank you! Common sense and correct interpretation of the highway code prevails.

The HC says that it is permitted to pass to the left of a vehicle in a right hand lane if you are in moving traffic, ie when the traffic slows in lane 3 and lane 2 is keeping moving.
It does not say it is permitted to approach at 70mph in lane 1, a single car doing 60mph in lane 2 and stay in lane 1 to drive past it. Then you have to move over twice to overtake, then return to lane 1. The fault there is entirely with the lane 2 driver ignoring lane 1.

Yep, middle lane sitters frustrate the hell out of me. I am not above flashing my lights to make them move over when the left lane is completely empty for miles and they're just obliviously cruising along well under 70mph in the middle lane like an inconsiderate arse.

Why don't people know the left lane is the default unless you're overtaking? Or do they know and just not care? Or are they too lazy or scared to just switch lanes when needed?

Yep, middle lane hoggers are annoying, and none of the reasons they give for doing it are valid.
"I don't want to become a lorry sandwich" - how do they think that will happen? Some people are irrationally scared of large vehicles.

Yes, this is an absolute bug bear of mine. I have some sympathy on roads like the A3 in Surrey where there are two lanes of flowing traffic and the 3rd (outside) lane is constantly being used for on and off flow because the on/off ramps are relatively close together as you head out of London but it still annoys me when people are travelling in the middle lane at 50- 60mph. Fair enough if you're going 70 and would genuinely be zipping in and out constantly.

I think it's actually the fault of the DVLA because they don't allow learners to drive on motorways. So by the time people are goign on the motorway, they aren't actually being "instructed" and have no idea how to overtake safely. I have told my DC that once they pass their licences they will be doing a few weeks of trips around the entire M25 with me/an instructor.

I think the conclusion we can come to is that many people can’t drive, and that many people are afraid of some elements of driving- particularly changing lanes whether that is to merge, allow people to merge or to overtake.
It also happens more often than it used to with people going right at roundabouts. When I learned to drive I was taught to enter in the right hand lane then move over to the left when I had passed the exit before the one I want to take. It seems more and more people go all the way in the left hand lane.
Can you tell I drive a lot?😂

Lots of people are scared and so once onto the motorway they move out of the lefthand lane and stay put (going slowly) until they need to exit so they don't have to change lanes to let traffic on at the next junctions. This is the only explanation alongside general cluelessness and selfishness to explain such poor driving. As long as conditions are clear and decent it is annoying AF; along with people doing substantially below the speed limit even on straight, wide roads in okay weather conditions.

I don't think you are right.

Moving in front of someone is Lane 2 or 3 when you are in Lane 1 is permitted if the other lanes are slow moving as in a queue.
Pulling ahead is otherwise not allowed.

'Working within the police' could mean you make the tea. You aren't an traffic cop I assume.

Middle lane hoggers are super dangerous. They are the biggest causes of accidents. Youre right op. They should only in in lane 2 if they are going faster than you are in lane 1

This is for traffic jams basically - “congested conditions” - means traffic jams, or situations close to jams. That’s when you can undertake. It’s not just if you feel like gojng that speed.

@JacquesHarlow I share your pain. I drive a lot for work and like to actually progress at a speed appropriate to the road conditions. I have a relative who is terrified of this. They drive at 40, max. On the motorway. 🤦🏻‍♀️

the other drivers you describe are horrendous but the scenario you describe you would not be undertaking if you had been in lane one all along and were not going over the speed limit.

DH and I are both solicitors (albeit not traffic specialists!) and have looked into the law around this extensively as DH became particularly exercised about it (he is an absolutely stickler for all rules and regs, the Road Code in particular). He has also checked it out with senior police road traffic experts.

OP they are called The Middle Laners.

They think they are choosing the best option.
Like Goldilocks and the three bears. But it's about lanes, not porridge
Not too slow, not too fast. So they stay in the 'safe' middle lane.

Causing havoc as other people want to overtake and then only have Lane 3 as an option.

Having spent a lot of time on the M25 lately, the worst offence is undertaking.
VERY dangerous and a cause of potential accidents.

It's probably more due to the fact that a lot of people don't drive on the motorways much at all. Maybe once or twice a year. Then decide that they are going to drive 300 miles going on holiday.

TBH I don't understand why people find it so difficult. I can understand why people are worried about the blind spots in the mirrors, but so long as you check your mirrors on a fairly regular basis you should know exactly what is behind you and what is coming up. Then it is just a matter of maintaining a sensible distance to the car in front and actually anticipating what other people are going to do.

I can only assume a lot of people who drive around towns normally and don't use the motorways barely use their mirrors at all.That's why you see them glued to the middle lane rigidly gripping the steering wheel at 60 mph totally oblivious to the rest of the world.

It’s the definition of undertaking that has you confused OP. You’re right that you shouldn’t undertake from the first lane - but that means approaching on the left and then changing lanes to move in front of the vehicle. Moving at your own pace within the first lane is perfectly fine even if you drive past a slower car in the lane to your right - that isn’t undertaking. PP and the Highway Code are both correct, it’s your interpretation that is wrong.

It’s not undertaking if you’re in lane 1 at the safe speed and lane 2 is slow and you pass by at your same speed.
undertaking is intentionally moving a lane to the left to get around a slower driver.

i checked with the police.

They were going 60mph that's actually quite fast ime. They usually sit at 50!

But no, yanbu.

I also do a lot of driving on motorways and I'm forever getting held up by accidents. And I swear it's caused by the increased number of people who think driving at 50mph down the centre of the motorway is acceptable.

It. Is. Not.

I drive M27, M3, A34, M40, M69 and M1.

Congested conditions to me can mean anything other than a completely clear road, not just gridlock.

Obviously, it's safer to go past a clueless wanker doing 60mph on the left rather than dive across 2/3 lanes of traffic when there is any level of traffic on the road.

If it's completely clear I might go to the right, but if there are other cars about, nope.

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.

@Honestlynotsure (good user name by the way here.)

This is what I posted.
The important phrase is in congested conditions.

It also winds me up when people call the outside lane / over taking lane the "fast lane" 😤

Where I currently live, you must do 1/3 of your driving lessons during the day in the town / city you’re learning in, another 1/3 in town but at nighttime (or at least dusk - as a result driving schools slow down in summer), and the other 1/3 on the motorway.

Perhaps if this was implemented everywhere, people would learn how to behave on different types of roads. Exam must be a mix of slow roads + short section on a motorway - or the fastest road in the vicinity if motorways are quite a distance away, which is very rarely the case as the infrastructure is great here.

I won’t specify the country but it’s in Europe, and the driving standards here are excellent.