To think it's ok to want to travel at 70mph on the motorway...

[JacquesHarlow]

...or am I now completely unreasonable, and the Highway Code is irrelevant?

Hear me out if you will:

I have done a LOT of driving in the past two weeks. M1, A1, A23, M25, M40, M6, you name it.

I am middle aged, F, live in Surrey, for what any of that is worth. I am also it seems one of the stranger folk...in that when I join a motorway, I drive at 70mph on the dot. I also stay in the left lane until overtaking.

AIBU for doing this?

It seems so, judging by the habits of hundreds of road users I encountered, who come onto the motorway and automatically slide into lane 3 of 4, or lane 2 of 3. And sit there for absolutely ages, at around 60 mph.

I kid you not, 60mph.

It's maddening. I am driving at 70mph, in lane 1. It is clear in front of me.

Next to me is someone doing 60 mph. I know this because I am coming up on them quickly. I cannot however undertake them - this is against the Highway Code.

So I indicate, check it's clear, move out to lane 2 behind them. I then look to move to lane 3 to overtake.

Only I can't move over to lane 3, because there is someone doing 60 (or maybe less), right alongside them. Not overtaking, just cruising next to them in their own little lane.

So I indicate again, move out to lane 4. Where of course it takes me 30 seconds or so to overtake, at which point someone is barrelling down on me wanting to do 80mph in their private fast lane. (I'm fine with this, I assert my right to overtake legally etc).

So that's three lane changes to overtake two cars who due to their speed (and the highway code's rules) should be sitting in lane 1.

Why do people do this?

I notice that when I've brought this up years ago on here, or when I've spoken to folk in real life, people often say

"It's more dangerous to do all that 'weaving about' than stay in a lane"
"I'm not going to get trapped in a lorry sandwich"
"People join constantly on motorways and I don't want to have to move over"

OK, great.

So you're going to make me change three lanes, just because you want your own little personal bubble on the motorway, and are happy to be a rolling roadblock?

I think middle lane hoggers are not only selfish, but actually dangerous.

But AIBU?

For Smart motorways, I think Lane 1 (previously hard shoulder) should only be marked as open if there's a speed limit in force, say 50 or less. It's too dangerous for traffic at 70 in Lane 1 with nowhere to swerve to the left if there's a blockage. Having to swerve into lane 2 and almost certainly into an other vehicle is highly dangerous. If the normal 70 speed limit applies, then lane 1 should be "X" 'd off and blocked for traffic.

But that's not how they work (which is why many consider them unsafe.) They're no different from most dual carriageways in that sense, which also have a 70mph speed limit, and no hard shoulder.

Plus, 3 lanes are needed because of HGVs etc. One of those laboriously overtaking a slightly slower one can block lanes 1&2 for quite a while.

Many other drivers agree. Coming up the M6 yesterday there were long sections where hardly anything apart from an odd truck was using lane 1. It'd be better if it was marked closed as you suggest. I'm pretty sure that's what the original pilots did.

I've had a couple of friends who have been squished trying to pass a vehicle from the left hand side. Not a chance in hell I'll be doing that, thanks.

Middle and right hand lane hogs - it was ever thus. Some of them wake up out of their middle lane daze once I've passed from left to middle to right to middle to left to overtake them. Some don't.

If the road is quiet enough, you can always play doughnuts. Accelerate, overtake in a further out lane, pull back to the inside land, let them overtake you, and repeat. See how many times it takes them to notice they're always overtaking the same car / same car overtakes them.

Sometimes for several miles. An absolute pain in the arse if you are towing and can’t use lane 3.

Lots of dual carriageways have "somewhere" to go on the left, whether it be a grass verge, shrubbery etc. They tend not to have metal barriers right at the edge of the live lane.

It is an interesting stat that only 10% of the post think YABU, when I am out driving it so often feels like more than 10% of the population don't have a clue how to drive or use lane discipline.
I guess like most things in life it is the minority that make life hell for the rest of us.

Indeed, it's Paretto's 80:20 rule in action again. 20% of the drivers cause 80% of the problems. The other 80% of drivers get it mostly right so are pretty much "invisible" in terms of not attracting attention as they're just getting on with it, causing no harm/trouble to anyone.

Yes exactly. SMART MOTORWAYS are death traps and thankfully many drivers now make their own judgement and avoid the inside lane where there is no hard shoulder.

OK, so I sought the advice of a retired traffic police officer I know (an actual police officer, not the highways agency traffic officers!).

He firstly just confirmed that undertaking is an offence (just as it is an offence to hog the lanes).

On further pressing, he has confirmed that he will happily pass people in an inside lane if he's driving, if it's a lane he's already using and people in the outside lane are going slower and not overtaking anything themselves. He said he just makes sure he's got enough space to overtake anything in lane 1 later, without having to cut in front of the person in the outside lanes. If he has a vehicle to overtake in lane 1, then he will go all the way around the hogger too.

The key point for both him and me is that you have to be fully aware of the other driver and be prepared for them to react or suddenly change lanes as, quite frankly, if they're not paying attention to the fact that they're lane hogging, they are very unlikely to be keeping an eye on their mirrors too.

Ultimately, take what you believe is the least risky manoeuvre. As I said in my previous post, chances are that least risky move is going to involve you making as few changes to your own course of direction as possible, so moving across 2 (or 3!) lanes of active traffic to then return back across another 2 (or 3) lanes of active traffic in the other direction, is more risky than just carefully continuing on in the lane you're in.

They don't all. Like the bit of the A34 where I wrote off my first car. That was definitely beside a metal barrier (which I climbed over to wait for the police.)

This

Have a closer read of the Highway Code

If the traffic in your lane is moving faster than that of the lane to your right, there is no problem if your vehicle moves past a vehicle in the lane to the right.

Of course, on a three lane highway, hanging back behind the vehicle in the lane to the right, while your lane ahead is clear so you can wait until someone comes up in the overtaking lane so you can go past the vehicle in the middle lane on both sides at the same time is completely dangerous and foolhardy.

Any car not in the inside lane should be able to identify which vehicle they are overtaking. If it's not obvious then they can be given a ticket with three points.

I never said all.

Another annoying thing is on dual carriageways where people refuse to pull out onto the outside lane to let people in who are joining on the (usually too short) slip road.

Grrr happened to me today and nearly ran out of road as no one had left a bloody gap either.

I'm totally with you on this OP! It's caused by many things, lack of knowledge and/or confidence, bad planning ahead, arrogance, entitlement to name a few! I was a driving instructor for 32 years until I retired in March. I had a big take up on motorway lessons as we have 2 junctions that serve our city. One of the biggest things I emphasised was planning well ahead and being as aware of traffic behind as the traffic in front. Good planning and awareness can save your life on a motorway. Too many people tootle along at speed with their minds engaged in neutral!

Nope not unreasonable to expect that. My view is if people can’t drive the speed limit, unless restricted like lorries and towing vehicles, they shouldn’t be on the motorway. There is far too much congestion on the roads without the need for slow drivers making it even worse

It seems learner drivers do not have lessons on motorways in the UK whereas this is part of the course in France.

Yeah. Whatever. But I can't bring myself to get too upset over this. If the 'going rate' is 60mph, drive at 60mph. You won't really get there any later, and you'll save a bit of fuel. Driving isn't a competitive sport. Go with the flow.

Can I share my best story? Me at 70mph on the inside (L hand lane). Car B going probably very slightly over 70mph on the next lane in, gradually coming up behind me to overtake. All good,
Along comes 3rd car (Car C) behind Car B. IIIRC, he couldn't overtake safely, so instead, he drove across the white lines between Car B and me, at over 70mph (probably around 80), making 3 lanes out of the 2, to overtake the 2 of us (or strictly speaking, overtake me and undertake Car B simultaneously) !!! I was absolutely gobsmacked. He then pulled off the motorway at the next exit, so gained all of about 20 seconds.
He was a middle aged man.

I find it quite stressful particularly at night when I want to overtake, people up my tail flashing in an instant, flashing their lights continuously for me to get out of their way. I then am so blinded by them flashing their lights that I can’t judge how much room i have between myself and the car I’m overtaking so that i can move back over!

Does this happen often? I travel on the motorway regularly at night and can't remember anyone flashing me. What lane is this happening in?

People are at liberty to choose the speed they drive within the legal limit. No-one should drive faster than they feel safe doing. However not everyone feels hesitant behind the wheel and those drivers also have the right to drive at a speed that feels safe to them.

But not in the middle lane when the left lane is clear.