Who should pay?

[CountryVic]

Last month, 4 work colleagues were going in a work car to another office for the week. We were to meet at work for 7.30am and the drive was an hour, and we returned for 5pm. Two people were not able to drive, one has a frozen shoulder, and the other has not got a full licence (trainee) so the driving was left to myself and one other, let’s call her Sonia.
I drove every morning, and Sonia drove 4 of the 5 afternoons, all good. Until a speeding ticket arrived at work. My boss sent an email to all 4 staff advising as per policy that we signed when taking the car, this needs to be paid by the driver, so can we please confirm who was driving on Thursday afternoon at 4.36pm so they can update the details and have the ticket sent in the correct name and with licence details.
I responded to the email 2 days later when my manager called me to follow up, I had assumed Sonia had responded and taken ownership. I CC everyone in the email and confirmed Sonia was driving, but she replied saying she can't be sure and she thinks it was me! The other 2 staff said they think she drove, but it was a while ago so can’t be sure, so the manager had head office send the full ticket so he can see who the driver is. Of course it shows Sonia, we look nothing alike, but she still says she does not think she should be held fully responsible.
The ticket is $260 and Sonia is suggesting that we split it 4 ways paying $65 each and as we all benefitted from driving together. The other staff member with the frozen shoulder agrees that this is fairest, I disagree and have said no, I won’t be paying this.
On Friday morning I got an email saying this needs to be resolved on Monday, if we can not agree then we have to to attend a meeting with the manager and someone from corporate services as they oversee the work car bookings.
The manager has said it’s up to us how to handle it, reminded us we’re all one team, here for one another but I have said there is nothing to handle, the photograph shows Sonia driving, she should pay the fine, it’s a legal document and nothing to do with work at all. I am happy to go to the meeting and advise this.
The other staff member has put $65 in an envelope for the manager, the trainee has said she’s not got any spare cash until payday and could she pay it over a few pays, I have said there is no expectation for anyone by but Sonia to pay as she was the one with her foot on the accelerator!
Am I wrong here?

I’d be annoyed that Sonia had put me at risk as a passenger by speeding to be honest. She should be apologising to everyone in the car for driving dangerously with them in the car and putting them at increased risk of a collision. Her fine is for her recklessness.

This is the reasoning to use.

She did the crime, you can't split the resultant penalty, that is not how the law is.

This is 100% on Sonia.

If I got a taxi to work and the taxi driver got a ticket, then I wouldn’t be expected to pay.

This is hers and only her doing.
She cannot put any blame on anyone else.

She’s a CF for even asking.

If it was only a 1 or 2 mph over the limit and she took full responsibility and apologised and paid straight away - then as a friend, I would potentially consider giving her a bit of money towards it (especially if I was one of the passengers who never drives).

But the fact that she tried to blame you and make it everyone else’s problem, then out of pure pride I wouldn’t give her anything.

If it was you I doubt she would have spilt it.

Whenever someone on Judge Judy attempts to get someone else to pay their fine she is quick to point out that it is part of the punishment for their own actions and not anyone else's responsibility.

I am actually surprised that your colleague isn't in trouble at work for speeding in their car.

Sounds like a conspiracy to break the law, since legally Sonia should pay the fine. It is probably a breach of speeding laws and employment laws and it is also bullying. The employer needs to get a spine and be made aware of its own risk exposure if it puts pressure on you to pay.

I might possibly have offered to share the cost, if Sonia had owned up straightaway. But the fact that she "couldn't remember" (in other words tried to implicate you) until shown irrefutable evidence, means that would be a big fat no from me. And your manager is wrong and weak - this is not something to be sorted out amongst yourselves. S/he just doesn't want the hassle of doing what they are paid to do ie manage.

Let it drag on until Sonia loses the option of just paying a measly fine. And then ask your boss how they plan on convincing a judge that you should split Sonia’s custodial sentence 4 ways.

Your manager is an idiot. Sonia is a weasel. She is solely responsible and needs to start acting like an adult.

Do not take any responsibility or pay anything towards this!

She was speeding, her choice, she pays

Sonia pays

If the work policy is clear and says driver should pay (as indicated by the office manager in the original post) then I'd be pointing that out and asking why you have a policy if it's not to be followed. It's not good risk management. It's worse to have a policy and not follow it than not to have one at all

This.
Excellent suggestion to call the police for some advice and ACAS.

I think it is shocking that Sonia clearly knowingly lied and your employer is colluding in this by saying those that weren't driving are also responsible.

Are they saying if she hit someone you as passengers would be responsible.

I would investigate this, put it all to paper and ask for clarification where it states that you have to do this in policy and the law.

Push back hard.

Of course Sonia should pay, she was driving!

If you perhaps got a parking ticket snd had all agreed to park somewhere and weren't sure of the rules that would be different, but she was solely responsible for driving the car at the correct speed limit,

Would there not be a camera that shows the driver? Don't the machines take a photo of the car the identify it speeding and then use as proof?
If not, the fact is three out of four of you say it was Sonia. Conveniently, Sonia says she 'cant be sure' but thinks it was you.
Unless the boss is an idiot he should take it up with Sonia. Unless he's accusing you and the other two of lying? Which in this context is actually against the law, and possibly sackable as an offence to boot?
I guess worse case scenario all four of you split it but Sonia won't be popular will she. Technically you could tell the council/cops you know it was her and you'd swear in a courthouse to that effect?!
Also none of you will want to be in a car driven by her for work which could get awkward for the boss.

If Sonia was the only one driving, doing everyone else a favour then I would split. But as you were driving as well it's bit more difficult. Obviously, this is Sonia's fault but you'll be seeing her at work so this will get awkward.

I know it's not quite there same but a few years ago we went on holiday to America. My uncle did all the driving. Where we were staying, he parked in the wrong direction. None of us knew that wasn't allowed. We split the fine no problem.

Sonia should pay. As the driver she is fully responsible.
The rest of you have no responsibility whatsoever. You had no influence over the speed she was driving at.

I don’t even understand the “passengers benefit” argument - it’s a work car so the driver isn’t incurring wear and tear on their own car so the only possible benefit is if the passengers hate driving or can’t drive (neither applies to you)

Where possible I choose to drive and not claim mileage when I have to visit clients as our work ask people to car pool in order to claim expenses and I hate doing so as I don’t like being at the mercy of others driving and having to make small talk.

The only person responsible for paying a fine for breaking the law is the one who broke it

You and Sonia had a very easy system for determining who drove when. Sonia knew she drove afternoons. She was originally lying.

Then she tried to dodge company’s written policy, and probably for the sake of an easy life your office manager is willing to go along with her. He is wrong. I don’t think a government office would actually let his decision stand, if you make the arguments about precedent and slippery slope presented here. Particularly if you can work in gracefully that Sonia was both the afternoon driver and the only person unsure of this fact

Do you have a version of ACAS in Australia?

Definitely agree with this; 4 of you benefitted from shared driving so it needs to be shared

This with bells on!!

What type of C U Next Tuesday expects a young trainee living month to month to fork out for a speeding fine THEY incurred???

Hell no.

and I'd be telling Sonia exactly how shitty I thought she was behaving.

It would set a ridiculous precedent if you split it. Your manager is a buffoon.

We drive the work cars all the time, every 6 months you have to complete an online training package with all the details when taking a car, such as housing it over night, checking tyres, keeping the fuel up…the speeding ticket is definitely mentioned in there so it shouldn’t be a surprise to her.

If speeding tickets are specifically mentioned, I’d email corporate cc’ing in your manager explaining that if sharing fines for any driving offences is the new expectation, can they clarify if this is for all offences? Drink driving? Drugs? Dangerous driving? Or just speeding?
Also, could they please make sure that everyone has completed and signed the updated contract to that effect.

I think you’ll find it goes away quite quickly.

it’s ridiculous to expect passengers to pay for a drivers offence. (Would they expect to pay a bus drivers driving fine if they were a passenger?)

In the uk, they request details of the driver before even deciding on points or fine. It’s sent direct to the driver once that’s confirmed

I totally agree with you. She was driving, she was exclusively responsible for her speed.

It’s a bloody cheek for your workplace to (rightly) accept that they aren’t responsible for the ticket but also (wrongly) try and push the rest of you to share the responsibility.

Apologies for being rude but you are such a wet blanket it’s actually made you completely unjust.

Nothing about this being a shared driving situation led Sonia to speed - she was the one driving dangerously, it’s her fault alone and nobody else’s.

Doing people the favour of sharing the driving doesn’t mean you get to expect that they’ll share the burden of any driving offences you choose to commit in return, and really that ought to be perfectly obvious.

You’re seriously expecting a trainee who doesn’t have £65 a month spare to fork out for an offence she had absolutely nothing to do with and couldn’t control?

You actually need to get a grip.

Rubbish.

Definitely agree with this; 4 of you benefitted from shared driving so it needs to be shared

This makes no sense at all to me. It's a bit Russian Roulette to have to get a lift to work because there isn't an option and to have to pay any fines the driver may get.

What is she had sped every time and they got four tickets? Or the OP sped too and they got ten?