UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

[80smonster]

UK universities are in trouble, apparently many could close, why not charge VAT on tuition fees (for those that are financially viable)? Bridget Phillipson says they are autonomous institutions and won’t be given a public bail out - they should rely on their own resources:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms

YABU - don’t add the VAT
YANBU - add the VAT

No - we are categorically NOT like private schools or any other private entity (other than the actual private universities like Buckingham, Norland etc). We cannot make profits, cannot charge home students higher fees than those imposed by the Gov. we are NOT private.

Op, do you understand how things work?

Because that would do absolutely nothing to support the universities financially. Do you not know what VAT is?

This is also completely different than charging VAT for private primary and secondary school tuition because there isn't another university system that is free and available for all students.

The ex-poly near me trains the nurses, physios and OTs. Not sure shutting it down would be a good idea.

Universities have to shrink or grow to meet changing demands.
Fewer students= fewer universities.
The ones that close should transfer students to neighbouring Unis with comparable courses.

Not a surprise when you look at the costs of attending university in many european countries, we live in Sweden and fees are free for citizens, permanent residents and EU residents..

Exactly. We do get some students from Europe but not the sort of numbers that make a huge impact on income.

Surely the vat could be invoiced each term and not rolled into the overall tuition loan? It might put some people off from going to uni, but overall universities need to be funded immediately by those who are using them? Bridget Phillipson says they are ‘autonomous institutions’ and there will be no public bail out.

The unis receive fees, and teaching grants, from the government. The taxpayer. Vast numbers of students don’t earn enough to pay much back so the state funds them. Parents help out with maintenance if they are earning above the threshold.

I don’t think many European students come here to study and I don’t think they are generally getter educated, fwiw. Do you actually look any of this stuff up before posting about it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075#:~:text=The%20UK%20is%20in%20second,education%20and%20publishing%20firm%2C%20Pearson.

That isn’t how VAT works, do you pay your VAT in Asda over a month, or when you pay for your shopping?

Bridget Phillipson says they are ‘autonomous institutions’ and there will be no public bail out.

Except we're not fully autonomous as we are not allowed to raise fees for home students. They are set by the government.

@80smonster Vat goes to the state. Businesses collect it for the state.The only “advantage” would to be to reduce the loan deficit of £285 billion. Is this what you have in mind? However student numbers might well plunge so what then? Why would the government make even bigger loans to students just to cover the Vat? It’s a waste of time. Who do you think gets the vat?

@drspouse How were they trained before uni degrees? They could be health colleges. These unis don’t need to offer a full menu of degrees. Look at clearing. We need a cull.

Either you don't have children or your children are through to the other side of uni.

Has OP thought that she has come up with some brilliant idea while reading the Guardian 😂

Do you think their training cost less than a degree though? My mum trained as a nurse at nursing college so no degrees. I can't see how her training was any cheaper that the degree ones. Lectures, exams to mark etc. Bit more work on the wards I suppose so maybe a quicker return on the cost.

Which private companies do you think the UK sells student loans to? @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

nope. I don’t think any education is a ‘luxury’. We could all argue the point until the cows come home but VAT exemption for education has been a perfectly legitimate and widely accepted stance for many, many years.

Never said we were like private schools but we aren’t state schools either.I stand by my original point, each university is its own private (heavily regulated) entity. I work in the sector too so I’m only too familiar with the challenges you list.

But then I also think it’s wrong to charge VAT on private school fees…

The U.K. has sold student loans to a variety of private investors and debt companies over the years. They tend to sell batches every few years where the Gov gets pence to the £ of their value, but it raises a few billion in ready cash.

So that is one that should stay open and be properly funded. I am not sure about some of the others though, would prefer a planned ordered closure than bankruptcy. If a place goes bankrupt it is often local small businesses that are not paid.

If they impose it on private schools, most of the best of which don't make profits and are charities they may need by law to impose it on universities too which is why litigation might well result if labour proceeds with it its plans for private schools. Yes, the VAT is not kept by the university BUT it would be 20% more into state coffers which could be given back to universities to spend.

Yeah, I bet you'd love to make higher education totally inaccessible for poorer students in order to make it easier for the privately educated to get admission to top institutions. It would be like going back to the good old days when the poor knew their place.

Getting really fed up of this entitled nonsense.

Respectfully, this is legally bollocks.

(Yes, that is the technical term)