UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

[80smonster]

UK universities are in trouble, apparently many could close, why not charge VAT on tuition fees (for those that are financially viable)? Bridget Phillipson says they are autonomous institutions and won’t be given a public bail out - they should rely on their own resources:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms

YABU - don’t add the VAT
YANBU - add the VAT

@User8646382 People are free to join an agency if they wish. As a working person, this might suit your family life. If employers were more attractive, then they would get employees. Agencies have a role but of course employees want great employers who can offer flexible working. It’s the way it is in a female dominated industry.

You probably right - the agency costs are so high. But I’m sure they’ll seem a lot better with 20% knocked off.

Agree - even if there are funds and scholarships - it really isn't on the radar.
Also, moving far away from family etc comes with its own issues.
I suppose it is always a consideration when you come from an immigrant background

So the scholarship is a fraction of the overall cost of £47 k and you can’t get loans to cover it. How is that helpful?

Aside from the fact you need to win the scholarship you need to get very high grades in the SAT tests and have a load of expensive extra curricular items to put on your application.

Why on earth would anybody from the UK go to Iowa University as opposed to one of the many very good non MN approved unis we have in this country anyway????

Of course, and I understand why people do work for agencies. They can pick and choose when to work and which jobs to take, and for the most part there is no responsibility - they turn up, follow someone else’s teaching plan, then clock off and go home. No paperwork, no additional hours, no stress.

But agencies are the real reason that schools can’t recruit permanent staff and there’s no denying it.

Not sure what you mean with your 'have a moan...' statement.

I was paraphrasing what you posted.

I have no skin in the game here. What I do know is that improving state schools to the point where parents would have a real choice of school means increasing taxes by a considerable amount. This may not be a palatable proposition to British taxpayers/ voters.

Back in the day, DD got a scholarship from a US uni. It unfortunately hardly made a dent in (10 years ago) $45,000 a year fees and living costs and flights for 4 years. Deep pockets are needed.

It would clearly be shit for the staff and students affected, but there are simply too many universities. Some closures are very likely inevitable.

It’s like rationalization in any other industry. Those employees who have the necessary skills will get employed elsewhere. Many will have transferable skills. Many would be able to teach below degree level. The intake of students would need to be controlled. As schools do when they close. The big mistake was allowing the student numbers to accelerate so quickly without quality control and the assumption international students would just keep coming. Brexit clearly hasn’t helped not anti immigration laws.

Then they don't really want an improvement. I don't see a choice because VAT on private schools, even if it raised £2billion, will not deliver the improvements required. We need more funding per student.

Your statement was not a paraphrase but you know that

The great majority of universities have actually been around for decades if not centuries. They were previously Polytechnics or Colleges of higher education and they provide a lot of vocational training and always did. I appreciate many people think they offer less useful degrees too but those courses often make more money. If universities go out of business all their courses will go not just the ones people on MN don't approve of.

It’s silly that people don’t realise just how hard kids have to work for the top grades at A Level. Private or state. There really is only so much spoon-feeding you can do to help a student gain an A star in (say) Physics..

Maybe the government can help Universities out by helping with tuition fees for students they are about to hsve so much surplus cash from tbe private school VAT charges what better way to use it.

Based on what? They were overspilling with students and then the level of fee required went up and up. We are short of qualified people in a lot of the career paths that require a university degree, which is why we are continually bringing people into the UK to fulfill these roles.

UK really is in a spiral downwards it's astonishing how accepting everyone is.

Yes, it's as if people haven't noticed that we are short of healthcare and other professional. It will get worse if universities close because the others are struggling too and will focus on the courses that make money rather than pick up the slack.

What does spoon feeding even mean? The student still has to recall and apply what they have learnt. They get to do so in small classes, with little disruption and with trips that support what they learn and get to decompress with loads of sport and art and perform at concert halls. Amazing privilege for sure but not sure how that is being spoon fed....
The fallacy is assuming all private or state schools are similar
My experience of private school has been quite different- with kids having to find their own way around different subject classes from age 8 and a lot of independent research and going off-piste and reading widely. I went to private school here from age 14 - and graduated top of my med school. Maybe all the students at my med school were similarly spoon fed.

I remember dropping Physics because I quickly realised no amount of help would help me get the required grades at Alevels. Money doesn't buy academic chops (as the celebs that got caught in the US university scandal found out!)

For Yale - as an example.
Not saying everyone can or should - just saying there are opportunities and this is for everyone (international or US resident). Extremely competitive to get in of course

Yeah know that however the entire world would like to get one of those scholarships. It’s harder to get a Yale scholarship than Oxbridge.

Or get a real job and become a Plumber.

There is always that. Our plumber sends his child to private school

Thats actually quite hard to do but a lot easier for people who know nothing about plumbing to say.

Suuuure… ‘concerned of Surrey’

It’s only August yet here we have the stupidest post of 2024. Bravo!

I know enough about plumbing to know. There’s nowhere to hide. DS just got his business studies degree and the passmark was 40%. He got more than that, 77% and a first.

at 40% it’s valueless. If you made 60% mistakes as a plumber you’d flood the house.

His father, grandfather and ggf were all plumbers.

This obsession with university is nonsense and we need a damn good clear out. At the very least half need shutting down, and that’s probably about to happen.

I don't think thee should be fees at all for going to university. So no there definitely shouldn't be VAT!