How many sick days are you allowed to take?

[Abigail47]

In my last job, they didn't really care that much about sick leave. They would let people take up to about two weeks uncertified sick leave, and if you were certified for sick leave, you could take months of sick leave. They also didn't do return to work meetings for sick periods of less that five days.

I only took about four days sick leave in a year in that last job.

I started a new job seven months ago and I'm in shock.

I've taken four days sick leave in the whole seven month period. Two different periods of two days. I was sick. They were uncertified (as I had moved to a new area and hadn't registered with a local doctor in time) and I didn't get paid.

After each period I was called into an office with a manager and made to do a return to work meeting.
I was told in each meeting that too much sick leave can leave to contract termination.

My colleague just took five days certified sick leave, and on her return they said the same to her, that too much sick leave can lead to contract termination.

Aibu to think that four days sick leave in a whole year is not a lot.

Like we are going to get sick . Everyone does.
In one of my sick periods I totally lost my voice with a chest infection. I couldn't speak at all and I have a customer facing role.

What is sick leave like in your organisation?

Come off it. Having days off for colds in 7 months and having a serious illness are not the same. Serious illness should be supported by the employer regardless of days of absence. But having days off because of a sniffle is pathetic. Not talking about flu here or Covid which can be debilitating. Feeling a bit under the weather and thinking you can take off nearly a week of in less than a year is being precious. To bring in disability discrimination, is bollocks quite frankly. No one is talking about justified long term absence. We’re taking about low level discomforts

One’s mild sniffle is someone else’s full blown cheat infection or something else much worse than sniffle. When I showed up sneezing / sniffling to work I was always sent home. No one wanted my whatever virus is.

Working from home made a massive difference to my absences. Commute used to be over an hour. A real struggle if really ill. But I can manage a basic handle on things if under the weather and wfh. I’ll have to be really bad with flu or similar to take a day off. Not because I think I can’t, but because I have no reason to otherwise. If I can do my job, I do it. I will call in sick when im
so ill I can’t. But that’s not 4 times a year 🤣 with a sniffle no less.

Self cert for 7 days anything over that needs a line from the doctor. I’m in Scotland don’t know about England or otherwise. I work in HR and do many return to work chats but they are pretty informal and never state that termination is on the cards. After a year staff can be fully paid for up to six months certified sick leave

In Australia we accrue 2 weeks paid sick leave each year for permanent full time employees. Part time gets a pro rata. If you don’t take it, it gets banked for future years. Many employees have months of accrued sick leave after 5 years in a job. Special industries more exposed to illness get extra sick leave (child care teachers for example).

We have four weeks paid annual leave in addition, about 7 days public holidays, paid bereavement leave (2 days/instance), paid domestic violence leave if required, paid long service leave after 10 years service. Probably more.

The idea of two periods of two days sick being unpaid or frowned upon is pretty laughable. I can’t imagine it happening here. We all know when someone’s taking the piss. We still have workplace laws that allow us to deal with it, while allowing the vast majority of good people to be paid during periods of illness.

i’m a bit astounded at some of the comments in this thread actually.

I am an employer here in aus, so all my staff leave comes from my pocket. It’s just normal and a cost of doing business. Also, most of us actually do care about the people who work for us and would like them to come back to work next week! Hiring staff and training them is horrendously expensive. I also don’t want them to bring their germs to the office and take the rest of the team out.

Well a managers job is to look after the company isn’t it. If someone is taking sick leave unreasonably, or just sick too frequently, that can cause s problem.

It is quite possible that you could be completely genuinely sick, but that because you are off work too often you are not a good employee. As i said, it’s my job to look after the company.

I teach (just for context, re work place).

Worked in 3 schools - all did RTW meetings as standard after any absence. For most people, it would just be very straightforward. For instance, I had a day off in my last school as I had a horrendous infection around a wisdom tooth - felt shocking, in agony and needed an emergency dentist.
RTW meeting was very quick, very sympathetic. It was my only period of absence though and I had been there about 2 years.

Current school, 3 separate instances in 12 months or 6 days would trigger an absence review with the deputy head and HR. Never had one myself but I think at this stage, although they are professional about it, they do emphasise the impact or absence on the organisation/collegaues/pupils and ask what, if anything, the staff member needs to support them to improve attendance. Attendance is then monitored and 2 further instances in 6 months leads to the next stage.

Ultimately, someone could be dismissed if they continue to be regularly absent.

4 days in 7 months is a lot. Most people, if they have a cold etc. Just dose up and go in. It sounds like your previous workplace was very slack on absence.

Obviously, my job can't be done from home and I can't take annual leave in term time, so usually if we are unwell with colds etc (common in schools) we dose up and head in.

In all honesty, I generally find its easier to go in and battle through the day than have to set cover work/pick it all up when I get back.

I've had 9 days off sick so far this year. I'm literally never off sick normally. I think it's my only sick leave in the whole 5 years I've worked there (been ill obviously but always well enough to still work - just from home) I had pneumonia though and was very unwell. Surely that wouldn't have ended in a disaplinary would it? Seems very unfair if it would have. I had a doctor's note obviously.

i think 4 days <<two episodes>> sick in 7 months a lot - particularly in a new job
hopefully the following 5 months you will be in better health

We all know when someone’s taking the piss. We still have workplace laws that allow us to deal with it, while allowing the vast majority of good people to be paid during periods of illness. @HazelBiscuit
how do you all know
and how do you deal with it?

3 absences in a rolling 12 months triggers a disciplinary investigation where I work.
It depends on the reasons for absence as to what action is taken. If they are related & occ health involved then prob no action but 3 unrelated absences would be a referral to occ health & prob verbal warning.

4 days in seven months would be frowned upon at my work unless it was in one block. We have to have a return to work meeting even if only off half a day. Public sector.

No they only pay full pay for a maximum of 12 weeks in total, so you could have 3 absences at 4 weeks a time on full pay or one 12 week absence at full pay and 2 additional absences at SSP or any combo in between with no issues because its 3 absences in total, but 4 days off over 4 separate days would be a problem because its 4 separate absences. Yes it sounds daft but thats how it works.

A member of my team has had to have pretty major surgery recently they took 12 weeks off for recovery, that was at full pay and classed as one absence. They need further surgery going forward, they have hit their full pay limit so the next surgery which will likely require a similar recovery time will only be paid at SSP rate if it is within a 12 month period.

The only exemption to this is if you have a condition that comes under the equality act in which case time off for reasons relating specifically to that condition are noted but do not count towards your official sickness absence.

I’ve had one bout (3 days) of sick leave in 5 years. But I do appreciate I am lucky not to get ill!

We use Bradford factor too. But I think it can be unfair. I think I had 2 instances of sick last year for 2 days then 3 days and if I had even half a day off more I would have lost my bonus. But I could have had 1 instance and 10 days and been fine.

when my dc were young i never got ill,
i had to take time off for them but rarely came down with whatever they had, i did work part time
without checking i have no idea how much i have had off, apart from one day with an upset stomach, no option to wfh
my adult dd tells me we have sick days we should take, which to me is the wrong attitude
working life means you need to look after yourself, cannot burn the candle at both ends

Well it’s pretty rare? If it happens here it is usually ‘sickies’ on a Monday - not too long after the next leave day has accrued haha. Our laws can allow us to request a doctors certificate etc. when it becomes a pattern we can address it under the law.

We are allowed 10 days per year if you work full time, and they roll over/accumulate if you don’t take them. Some of my staff have accumulated 50 days. If they get an illness that is serious and requires sick leave they can take all 50. At once even. And still have a job.

any lengthy absence needs to be supported by a medical certificate but there is goodwill on all sides generally in relation to that.

Here, attendance at work when sick is not glorified, particularly post pandemic. If you bought a respiratory illness into work you’d be a social pariah.

So glad I’m in a country with semi-decent workplace laws.

The bragging about working while contagious like it’s some sort of virtuous thing - never mind that you’re passing those illnesses onto people who literally might die as a result.

When I’m sick I cancel stuff I won’t be there for, and “apply” for sick leave through our work leave system. If it’s a long illness I upload a certificate from my doctor. There’s no threats or conversations about how being ill impacts the business etc. Most of the time I take very little leave. Due to significant illness I’ve taken quite a few half days and the odd full day off this year.

While the laws protect us we have companies that do not follow them. But companies that encourage/force people to work while sick just end up with presenteeism issues, spreading illnesses and greater productivity losses. Also - since sick leave legally protected, companies that discourage people from using it can find that long term employees have a lot banked - and can end up taking several months off in a block, rather than a few days here and there spread out over years. It’s much cheaper to absorb a couple days off at a time in any business that doesn’t replace sick staff than needing to cover a couple months in a block.

Also - my company invested a lot in employing me. It’ll cost them much more to replace me, than to let me recover from that cold/flu/whatever for a couple days.

Return to Work meetings shouldn’t be a grilling. I manage people and our work policy is to have a RtW even if you’ve been off for 1 day. The form is about checking the person is indeed fit for work, do they need any temporary adjustments or even permanent ones and generally checking in. Obviously the discussion and form are very brief if someone has been off for only a day.

I find it really odd that people are talking about the UK like it is so behind other countries when that is just not the case for many employers.

Also the conversation about Australia - my cousin is out there at the moment having previously worked in NHS and she can’t get over how inflexible it is. She only gets 3 weeks AL at a time and they were funny about her taking it as a block to come back to England for my wedding, works crazy hours, 10 days sick leave is pathetic compared to the 6 months she had back home.

Seems like there are good and bad employers in every country. My working conditions are very good, DH is the same - he gets about 4 months I think + 31 days AL.

I do want to add though that I genuinely don’t think it’s normal to be unwell 4 or 5 times a year as so posters are suggesting. My last cold was in October 23, couldn’t tell you the last time DH was unwell. My mum currently has Covid but this is her first illness this year.

Obviously people differ and if you get ill often I’m sorry for you but I don’t think that means it’s normal. You probably have low immunity or there may be lifestyle factors you could change to generally boost your health (exercising more, healthy diet, quitting smoking, getting enough sleep etc etc).

I had one day sick leave for the first two years in my current company and then I got cancer and I had 4 weeks off for my operation and have had afternoons/mornings off for appts (but the appts aren’t sick leave just flexi leave).

Im facing chemo and planning to see how I go with it rather than just taking a chunk of time off but I’m glad I work where I do now because my last place woudl automatically dismiss you after 3 months. Could probably argue it as disability discrimination (as cancer counts under equality act) but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about that. I only get paid for 2 month’s sick but at least I’ll have a job after.

My dsis work in a hospital. For them it's not necessarily how LONG you are off, but how many TIMES you are off. This means a lot of people come into work when they really shouldn't.
You could have a staff member being off 3 days ( 1 day x3 times) who could officially be in more trouble than someone who has been off 6 days (3 days x2 times).
It's ridiculous and risking patients health by a stupid 'rules.

Taking annual leave is frowned upon in Japan, let alone sick leave. Yes ‘menstrual leave’ is in the law but female workers simply do not use it. I’d think very carefully about importing Japanese working practices to the UK…!

Can you imagine how much harder it would be to be hired as a woman if employers had to legally give you 3 days off a month as well as maternity leave?