To think a 3 week wait for emergency dental treatment is unacceptable?

[TheMerryWindow]

Please forgive me, but I'm in severe pain and need to vent my frustration.

Toothache began on Monday, but it was mild so I thought I'd wait and see if it settled down. By Tuesday morning it was quite bad, so I went through the NHS list online, trying to find a dentist accepting patients. None in my area, so I rang 111, which has a line dedicated to dental queries. Spoke to a lovely lady who said she would refer me for emergency treatment to a dentist about 4 miles away. She said to wait 10 minutes and then ring them, saying it's a 111 referral. When I rang, the receptionist said there weren't any NHS appointments, she'd ring me back when one became available but couldn't give any idea of when that might be. She was very snooty and dismissive.

This morning the pain was even worse, so I rang Ms Snooty again. She said there were still no NHS appointments and, when pressed, said it would be 3 weeks or longer before I could expect an emergency appointment! At this point, I rang 111 again and spoke to another lovely lady, who gave me a list of other dentists to try. There was only one on the list who could give me an emergency appointment before next week - 53 miles away! So I'm going tomorrow, but fuming about having to travel such a long way, not to mention being left in pain for so long.

I know the NHS is under huge pressure, but surely I'm not being unreasonable to think this is unacceptable?

Oh, before the extraction I also had to pay for 2 lots of antibiotics. My PPC doesn’t cover the as it was a private prescription.

To be honest, I think that you are being a bit unreasonable if you've waited until you've got a massive problem before registering with a dentist.

People are used to getting free nhs medical care in this country, so they feel entitled when it comes to dentistry, but it doesn't work in the same way unfortunately.

Hopefully things will improve under the new government, but I won't hold my breath. I don't think that the country can afford it tbh.

Do you guys not have a regular dentist that you're registered with, before crisis stage?
I registered with mine down the road about 4 years ago. I'm on UC but they've even repaired my multiple cracked front teeth which weren't causing me pain but looked awful. They've done multiple front and back fillings for me using composite instead of amalgam. Even made me a mouth guard/gum shield to use at night.

Yeah that's really bad. I've started seeing a private dentist because I was refused treatment (root canals) and they wanted to just pull the teeth (front teeth) on the NHS. I was surprised though at £50 for consultations, I thought it would be more expensive

Or for kids ! My niece is unable to get her 2yr old registered anywhere , she has had to have emergency appointment for herself as no practices within 50miles are taking on, she checks regularly

I was out with an ex colleague who works in a private nursery and they have several children with totally rotten teeth but can't get appointments to have them dealt with. She says they must be in pain !

You should definitely be seen much sooner but there aren't enough appropriately trained people to meet the demand. It is sad.

Labor has a Dentistry Rescue Plan to provide more NHS dental services so let’s hope that it’s implemented quickly and is successful.

It all comes down to money really as running a dental practice is expensive. Dentists buy or rent the building and equip the surgery, hire all the staff and pay all of the running costs, including wages, materials and insurances, to provide an NHS dental service. I imagine that private patients are essential in order to cover all those costs

Let’s hope that the rescue plan makes it viable to take on more NHS patients.

We lost our NHS dentist after covid, I had to re-register with the same dental practice but as a private patient.

Flicking through fb one morning and someone mentioned they were taking NHS patients again. Managed to register myself, dp and two adult dc that morning with the NHS dentist.

They are under strict instructions that under no circumstances are they to miss a check up. Dp understands the importance but adult dc I think are a little more lax, but I've hopefully got it home to them that it's not an option and we've been extremely lucky to register.

Even if Labour " has a plan" it won't be implemented quickly. Where are all the dentists coming from?

Thanks for all your replies.
@MidnightMeltdown I used to have NHS dentist, but didn't go for regular checkups as never had problems with my teeth. I didn't realise until it was too late that they take you off their books if you don't go regularly. I've been looking for a dentist for about a year now, but there are none taking on new NHS patients in my area.

Same as @suki1964, when you get an NHS dentist, do everything you can to keep one.
Where we used to live in London, we had a fantastic nhs dentist, kind and very skilled. It was really easy to get an nhs dentist, we had a choice of several, not sure if that was because it was quite a deprived area where people couldn't have afforded private. We moved about 20 miles out to a much more affluent area where adults couldnt get an nhs dentist. We spoke to our dentist to ask if we needed to come off her books as not in the area, and her response was 'you can stay, you are one of the few families who always turns up,listens to me respectfully and pays your bills on time so you are very welcome to stay until the rude people drive me out of nhs dentistry'. One time I was so late due to traffic that I missed my appointment and I went in to pay for it as I understood that that was what was required. The receptionist looked at me in shock, I thought she was annoyed so I apologised again and she said 'in 7 years working here you are the first person who has offered to pay for a missed appointment.

I was shocked, but working for the nhs I understand that when a service is free, some people feel they can abuse it, and the dentist misses out on income. Our dentist feels very strongly about nhs dentistry, but has said she is currently making a loss on her nhs work due to people not turning up/paying. So she has had to reduce it to mornings only, with afternoons for private.

Obviously I didn't call her that on the phone! In fact, I was extremely polite, but her manner was unpleasant and, well, snooty.

Lots of English are known for their dreadful teeth??!!!! Bit racist?!

As to getting my MP to do something about it, she's not a dentist so I don't think she'd be up for fixing my tooth...

I’m very lucky that me my partner and my son are all registered with the same NHS dentist and in an emergency I can usually get an appt the same day or following morning at latest.

Doesn't only come down to money (see my post above). Many people show a lack of respect for nhs staff and services.

I have been committed to the principle of nhs care and worked within it for over 20 years, especially as i work in paediatrics, i feel all children should get equal care as they have no control over whether can afford private. In the last 5 I have experienced more abuse, sexist and racist behaviour and general lack of respect for my time and knowledge, that I'm thinking more and more about moving to private practice to use my skills effectively rather than having to work hard to get people to even turn up, let alone listen and engage with their treatment. It's definitely not about the money for me, I wouldn't earn much different.

Well that’s on you to be honest @TheMerryWindow - that’s a very naive attitude to have. And now you’re in a pickle and it’s everyone else’s fault rather than your own.

YABU

@Chucklit I can't speak for others but I did have an nhs dentist and always showed up and tone and paid on time. All the dentists who did NHS work left and when I tried to register elsewhere they either had no space or all their staff had handed notice in. I didn't actually realise my NHS dentist had left until I turned up for an appointment to be told I could no longer be seen.

3 weeks? Things must have improved then. When I found myself in a similar situation 25 years or so ago, emergency appointments were typically a 4-6 week wait.

Doesn't only come down to money (see my post above). Many people show a lack of respect for nhs staff and services.

@Bushmillsbabe I was just pointing out the economic realities of running a dental practice, because I think it’s easy to forget that like any business, a dental practice has to generate money to pay the bills.

I can well believe that poor attitudes towards NHS services also put practitioners off. Another friend is a senior nurse and some of what she’s experienced is shocking.

@Bluejayshello Pardon me, I didn’t know naivety was a crime. In that case, you’ll be gratified to know I’m in even more pain after the dentist’s prodding and poking this afternoon. Serves me right for being an unworldly scumbag, I guess 😕

Oh no, @TheMerryWindow so they couldn’t do the necessary work?

It’s disgusting. We have a 160 mile round trip to see our NHS dentist. My friend has a round trip of around 300 miles!

@SummerTimeIsTheBest The problem is that a band 1 checkup costs about £26. Compare that to what a plumber or electrician would charge for a callout, for example. £50 at least. It doesn’t cover their costs.

@BruFord He's given me antibiotics for an infection and I have to go back for an extraction 😟 He was really nice, actually, considering he does mostly private work and would've earned next to nothing for seeing me. Dentists who are prepared to take on NHS patients must be altruistic souls - I hope the new government will eventually make it worth their while.

Please don’t hold your breath. It was Labour who brought in the current contract, they can’t blame the Tories for the utter mess NHS is in. It was immediately apparent in 2006 it was going to fail but they made no attempt to reform it. For the past 16 yrs the Tories have tried several pilot schemes but they were either too expensive or they were not fit for purpose. They refuse to listen to the profession who would happily return to the pre 2006 system with a few tweaks, since patients pay for treatment and always have then it is partly self funding. The current system is just pants.
Like most health professionals numbers are dwindling. And because of the potential changes to pensions again ( reversing Tory legislation) a whole bunch of NHS dentists over 55 will be taking their pensions early.
I made it to 59 and now just do one day a week looking after my longterm patients who are happy to pay privately. I feel like 37+ yrs service is ok.
It was always my intention to walk away at 60 but I still love the job, the money is paying for DS’s uni expenses so that’s a bonus.

I still see the odd NHS patient but I don’t intend to go back to it.

@Angrymum22 Thanks for your insights. I’ve gleaned a little from a friend who’s a dentist and realize that there’s no easy solutions.