DD4.5 driving me crazy with her attitude !

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I've been trying to keep her happy / busy / entertained with lots of quality time this summer. But she's just so grumpy and has such an attitude !

We've been away for a couple of weeks. Pool, Beach, presents, playgrounds, fun fairs, ice creams- you have it. And yet, she'd complain she was bored sometimes and also grumpy some of the time.

Since we've been back, she's had a couple of play dates and a birthday party and now going to holiday club for a week.

Yet, every day I pick her up from holiday club- she's annoyed about something. The other day it was that she wanted to pick a treat like another girl had picked, while we were leaving. However this treat thing wasn't for her year group and was something unrelated for an older year group. We just managed to walk past it and she wouldn't stop going on about it, all the way to the car. Shouting, stamping her feet. Sticking her tongue out at me, refusing to walk to the car and just generally making a bit of a scene.

Today again I picked her up and she wanted to play with her scooter. I told her that we can go on it when she gets home but that there's not place to go on it where we were. Again, shitty attitude, shouting, stomping feet, refusing to walk and just being a general brat. She was also saying she didn't want to go home, because going home is boring.

The more I say her behaviour is unacceptable, the more it goes on. I explained to her that she won't be going on her scooter when she gets home as her behaviour is unacceptable. She said she's not going to be nice to me anymore and she doesn't want to play with me anymore. She also threw a pen in the car. When we got home I told her she cannot go on her scooter because of how she behaved.

I know this is what she does with her friends, she can be unkind and then just doesn't understand that people are unkind to her back. She can't make that connection somehow.

I'm really sick of it. I don't want her going into reception and me having to deal with this behaviour every time I pick her up. Last year ok, I bribed her a bit to convince her to stop acting like this when I pick her up. I would say, I have a surprise in the car if you come quick or I have your scooter or we will go to the supermarket.

I'm just so sick of it and I would just like to pick her up and not have this massive attitude she has. Yesterday she was ok actually. But more often than not, she's annoyed. She wants more fun and doesn't want to go home and acts up.

I'm getting tired of it as she's 4 and a half now. Any advice ?

Try giving less attention when she plays up. If she moans she is bored tell her to go and draw a picture or make a model or count 10 things she can see out of the window. I'm assuming she is an only and you have not yet taught her to occupy herself. (My mum used to give me a duster and suggest I went and dusted the living room furniture, I didn't complain of being bored very often!). 😂

She's not an only. She has a 2 year old sibling. She does know how to busy herself but she just never wants to go home.

Yes indeed if I ignore her attitude, she stops quicker. But sometimes she's out and out rude and bratty and I think she needs a firmer talking to , as I shouldn't just ignore her behaviour.

But the more I react, the worse her behaviour and the longer it lasts.

Hmm she does sound spoilt and entitled. It's like she realises you're trying hard to please her and she is playing on that.

I agree with the above. Less attention. Remove activities more often. Take away any privileges such as scooter but also other activities and treats such as sweets. She needs to learn that she can't demand and get things her way all the time.

Yes definitely. I've denied her desert tonight and I've told her that if she keeps complaining about it, she can go to her room by herself and can't watch any TV.

She's come up a couple of times to apologise. But then keeps being bratty again. I need to stand firm here.

Yup my mum was the same! Whenever I said I was bored I was told she could easily find me something to do if I was that bored! Wash up. Dust. Clean the loo. Wash the car. Weed the garden. (Obviously these things were age dependent). But yeah I didn't complain I was bored that often! And if I did I soon became un-bored very quickly!
I was an only child and very much expected to amuse myself a lot.

It won't come right overnight. The more you are consistent in carrying through with warned consequences, the quicker she will realise there is no point playing up. So long as good behaviour is noted and rewarded as appropriate, I think she will soon get the message.

Are you specific on what exactly is unacceptable? I personally do not think complaining about a summer club, or being grumpy or saying you are bored is unacceptable behaviour.

We should allow our DC to express the normal range of emotions which includes being disappointed, grumpy, and telling parents things they think are unfair or not right.

Otherwise you are enforcing pure positivity on your DC and they will stop telling you the things that bother them for fear of being punished. Today it is minor, tomorrow might be more serious like bullying or sexual abuse or peer pressure.

Why did you deny her dessert? And why did you threaten her with going to her room and no TV for being upset by no dessert? Punishments are designed to upset a person. Seems wierd to punish and then punish again for the very feelings that punishments are meant to cause. Do you expect her to be happy to be denied dessert? And did you accept her apology? Dont you think her being upset over no dessert but still apologising for whatever she did shows an appropriate reaction? I do, so why threaten yet more punishment? What is acceptable behaviour to you?

She was shouting, crying, sticking her tongue out at me. She's allowed to have feelings, but not to stick her tongue out, scream and cry, stomp her feet and refuse to walk to the car. That's not ok.

Same with the desert, that's a consequence I told her already when she was misbehaving before. I said, stop sticking your tongue out and screaming at me. If you do it one more time, no desert. She continued, so I need to follow through.

She knows she can have feelings and will always be consoled, but being bratty, shouting and screaming at me and refusing to walk to the car, is not having feelings- it's bad behaviour.

Same with any type of over the top tantrum. Yes honey, I know it's hard leaving something fun and you feel sad and angry about it- but we don't shout and say that don't throw things around.

She was shouting, crying, sticking her tongue out at me. She's allowed to have feelings, but not to stick her tongue out, scream and cry, stomp her feet and refuse to walk to the car. That's not ok.

So that behaviour isn’t ok, how does she know what is an acceptable way to express negative feelings? You need to give her a toolkit - how do you express anger, disappointment or sadness - do you never cry, scream or stamp your feet?

Ok, glad you are communicating exactly what is misbehaviour.

However, are you making any allowances for the fact that under 7, children cannot yet regulate their emotions? That they will have more extreme displays of feelings than an older child and this is not within their control? That a certain amount of what you describe is really developmentally normal for a 4yr old that is still learning how to process emotions? And that punishment isn’t going to hurry along their development any faster?

I don't agree with withholding food as a punishment certainly not an expected course of a meal. Sweets after yes. You don't want food to become a bargaining point.

She so so tired and over stimulated! It gets way worse in Year R so buckle up. Give her loads of cuddles.

I agree that we all need to know what are the acceptable ways of expressing disappointment. My older siblings and cousins got me into swearing very young. My mum taught me that 'drat' and 'fiddlesticks' were acceptable alternatives for a 5 year old and I was even permitted to say them pretty loudly when really annoyed. The older kids laughed but mum realised I had to know what I WAS allowed to say.

Good point. An overtired young child is going to have an even harder time processing emotions.

It was just chocolate biscuits.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

Ok, glad you are communicating exactly what is misbehaviour.

However, are you making any allowances for the fact that under 7, children cannot yet regulate their emotions? That they will have more extreme displays of feelings than an older child and this is not within their control? That a certain amount of what you describe is really developmentally normal for a 4yr old that is still learning how to process emotions? And that punishment isn’t going to hurry along their development any faster?

I guess I do make some allowances for it but maybe not enough every time. It's hard to know how many allowances to make and when it's just allowing bad behaviour ? I don't see other kids acting like that at pick up.

When she was a toddler and having tantrums I made allowances for it and never expected her to be able to deal with her feelings in any other way, but as she's got older, I know she can handle disappointments much much better. I don't mind if she cries and I'll give her a cuddle, it's the shouting and stomping feet and throwing stuff / sticking tongue out - I think that crosses the line a bit. Or does it not ?

Does she watch YouTube by any chance? My DD became bratty and demanding after watching child influencers wafting about in Dubai with enough toys to fill a mansion. She seemed to think that if their lives were like that then her life should be too. We've cut out YouTube and are slowly seeing an improvement.

Yup! Do you mean people like nastya ? She needs a bit of a YouTube detox.

She's also always asking to go to random things like mermaid land etc.

Has she actually had time to wind down during the holidays? You've said you've been away and now she is in a holiday club, has she actually just stopped for 5 minutes? I imagine she's had a term of being hyped up about starting reception, transition days, leaving pre school, taken away on holiday out of routine and then put in summer club. Could she actually be acting out due to over stimulation?

My DD has just finished reception. We had the mother of meltdowns during the last two weeks of term every evening. Last week she had a busy week with various grandparents and something going on during the days with me and her brother. The tantrums and not holding her emotions started creeping back in back at home with us. These last two days she has been much calmer where we haven't had anything planned and she's just entertained herself at home.

She has. She's just been at home for a week. She had one birthday and one play date. The week before we went away, she was also just at home.

But I take your point.

Jeep coming down hard on the brattitude OP. You are aware of it and aren’t pandering to her - well done. They won’t stand for it in Reception-you will have a different child by Christmas, don’t worry 😉

She's just been too spoilt. My kids can get a bit like this if they've been over indulged. A bit like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka they just need to be told no and know that that behaviour will never get them anywhere. You can't occasionally cave for an easy life because they will remember that if they get worse and worse Mum might cave so they might as well try it on every time.
There needs to be consequences for bad behaviour.

I agree it's a tricky balance to find between acknowledging their feelings and limited ability to understand and regulate them, and also being firm and raising good kids. I saw a friend of mine explain to her nephew (who she cared for) when he'd done something naughty that she was telling him off because it was her job to help him grow up to be the best person he can be, and that really stuck with me. Even if they're small they can understand the reason why you're being firm isn't just being nasty. My youngest is older now but with her when we had bad behaviour I would talk about it with her soon afterwards - what can we both do to make sure that that doesn't happen again - to try to present it as us v the problem rather than me v her. Who knows what worked tbh, the most helpful thing was probably that she had a massive tantrum leaving a play date when she was 4, honestly it was like the exorcist, I angrily said no more play dates until September (this was end of January 2020). I probably didn't really mean it but then covid hit so I had no choice but to stick to it!

I very much frame it like that when we discuss it after the fact too. Just naturally.

Today she wanted to come in with me when I dropped off my son at nursery, I usually don't like to take her in with me when I pick him up or drop him off, so she waits in the car if she's with me.

( don't worry, it's very safe, I can see the car at all times and it's not far away at all and not on a busy road, but in the drive way / car park).

Anyway she said she wanted to come in with me and I said, please to wait. When I came back I got her attention and explained that I can't take her with me, because she still runs off/ doesn't hold my hand sometimes and messes around and it's dangerous. Especially when the little one also starts doing this and they both egg each other on and run off. It's extremely stressful and I just don't trust her 100 percent yet, to just walk next to me and not do something silly. I explained that it's dangerous and it's my job to keep her safe and that we can practice when we go shopping or for walks etc and that she will be able to come in to get her brother with me in the future, but not yet. We still need to practice. I explained if she doesn't listen and runs off she could get hurt etc etc etc.

We had a massive chat about generally running off away from me in public too and that she needs to stay close by, unless I tell her she can run around in a playground or whatever.

She's like yes mummy I won't run away again. I don't want to get lost and I want to come and get my brother with you from nursery... anyway queue we go to a mall.... where she decides to take off running. She thought it was funny. I had to run after her, otherwise I would have lost her. I told her off, of course and made her sit down for a few minutes to think about what had just happened. Eventually she said she was sorry. We went straight home after she had a think about it

Anyway it was pretty frustrating that she sprinted off like that in the mall.

It doesn’t sound like she can handle it better, at least not consistently. She may be more sensitive than average and a bit of a late bloomer.

I think to tackle shouting, foot stomping and tongue- start small…say like no shouting for example - but a few foot stomps and a tongue wag you will tolerate.

Maybe give her one free pass a day to react that way and you won’t have a go at her for it. For second, give a warning. Only for third, do a punishment.

Then gradually up the bar as she gets older.