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To wonder why we don't force GPs to work as NHS employees like every other doctor

182 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 06/08/2024 23:03

They're the weak point for the entire health service and they make a fortune while hospital doctors pick up their mess

OP posts:
Exasperatedtortoise · 06/04/2025 08:11

I work in a GP surgery as a Nurse Practitioner not a GP.
There are multiple problems in the system but the staff not working hard enough is not one of them.
Once our appointments go on the system a month in advance they are filled within 3 days. Most of them with the same patients again and again with their complex health problems that they really need to see secondary care about but can’t get an appointment to see. That means that we have very few appointments left available for new patients. Since Covid we have seen a total change in what problems patients come to see us about, things normally that could be managed at home or by the pharmacy but patients are now so anxious they are unwilling to do so. Basic coughs, colds, skin rashes, verrucas. These then take up the remaining appointments.
On Friday I covered our GP triage system alone. These were calls or econsults from patients asking for urgent advice. I had 65 patients in 1 morning and of these only 6 required GP,or nurse clinical input, the rest could have been dealt with by common sense or a pharmacy.
Hypertension and Diabetes is through the roof as people work harder, lives are more stressful so there is less time to think about healthy eating and exercise.
Mental health problems now take up more consultation time than anything else as there are poor, overstretched and inadequate services to send these patients to.
The whole system is imploding.
We would love to give you all appointments and to be able to help you all, that’s what we came into this job to do but demand is simply outstripping supply. Everyday we go into work and do our best and every day we are unable to do what you all need. It’s become so disheartening.
We know you are all frustrated and angry but we are not the people to be angry with.

JustDoseIt · 06/04/2025 08:12

GPs are not the weak point of the NHS. They're the major triage service for the entire NHS, reducing and preventing unnecessary patient contact in secondary care, without which the NHS would rapidly fail. A single GP can see 35 to 40 patients a day and they provide the country and provide nearly 1.5 million appointments a day all while the number of GPs falls because there are simply better working conditions privately or over seas. While you think they're paid unreasonably well, they aren't and many surgeries face bankruptcy. The pay, working conditions, terrible hours as well as the negative public opinion and ruthless abuse, all led by tabloids and false information from the Conservative government are other reasons why GPs are leaving in droves for far better lives elsewhere. The remaining few man a sinking ship, holding it together by working harder and longer without additional pay based solely on their good will.
The country perceive them as capable of providing emergency care, but thisnhas never been the case. Patients think GPs can and should do everything for them, but there is a relatively limited remit in which GPs work, that is actually contracted work. Many requests by patients are not contracted work. Much of what is requested falls outside of what they are legally indemnified to cover/treat.
Since COVID, GPs have had nearly double the amount of people requiring their attention. This is because they have new patients, as yet not referred or not treated, and they have patients already referred to secondary care, waiting vastly longer due to waiting times for their secondary care doctors input. Yet they need to wait and while their condition worsens, they seek repeat input from their GP. It has also led to your 'basic GP' treating ans managing more and more specialist conditions without the funding or resources. People think they're 'part time' however the typical 40 hour week is easily compressed into 3.5 days with their hours often being 10 to 12 hours a day. You also probably haven't a clue that around appointments and patient contact, they have hours of paperwork, blood tests and results to attend to. Most 10min appointments require at least a further 5 to 10 minutes, often longer, on this aspect of their vocation. And 'lunch'? Well the majority provide home visits at this time so aren't doing such administration work during a sit down lunch. People claim.GPs sit and drink tea all day. I'm.sure being offered a cup of tea by a co-worker is often the first and last thing many GPs have had the chance to drink. There were reports that GPs were often so busy that they felt they couldn't leave their office to simply go to the loo. People think that an empty waiting room means a quiet day! An empty waiting room means everyone is working and appointments are running on time. People moan that they can't get an appointment. Inrefer you to what I mentioned above re double the patient load and repeat attenders not yet seen by secondary care due to waiting times, which isnt controlled by GPs, but rather hospitals. You cant get through on the phone because GPs have limited staff, and limited phones. They arent a call centre, and they don't have the funds to simply expand, given the vast cut backs to primary care, as caused by your delightful government and the now defunct NHS England. GP surgeries, GPs and their associated care professionals and staff are the backbone of the NHS. Not the weak point.

finallysomesunshine · 06/04/2025 08:18

Our surgery was successfully practitioner-run for decades BEFORE the NHS, and into the 90s. Taken over by whatever the CCG equivalent was when the lead partner died (he lived in the practice building - complicated!). They desperately wanted to be shot of it but when they tendered, a US company was indeed cheaper than the GP consortium (and both way cheaper than CCG) running it. GPs lost out, and were v upset, saying they could not see how the US sums could possibly work.
18 months later, US company ditches the contract. Practice closes down.

Some GPs do make a lot, but they are generally running a complicated business w loads of responsibilities. Most don’t. There are economies of scale that would come if everything came in under one umbrella, but LOADS of inefficiencies too.

QueenPB · 06/04/2025 12:11

Boredlass · 03/04/2025 06:37

I’m glad we don’t force them. They are already bad enough. All they do is give you pills and send you on your way.

Do you want them to take you home?

GPClare · 06/04/2025 12:22

Apolloneuro · 06/08/2024 23:55

That is interesting. I’ve had several phone calls from my GP surgery at 7pm, from GPs who’ve been there all day.

The surgery opens at weekends, on a rota with others.

Since when has it got the fashion to piss on other professionals? Teachers get it, NHS staff get it, Police Officers get it.

Society would be in trouble without all these lazy part timers!

Not saying that’s what you necessarily think bluejay. I know you’re only passing it on.

people need to realise that the funding for GP services is £112 per pt for as many appts as needed. We see the equivalent of half our patients every month. If you work out the numbers and have similar style contracts to the consultant contract it would cost 2-3 times to have a salaried GP service

taxguru · 06/04/2025 13:28

GPClare · 06/04/2025 12:22

people need to realise that the funding for GP services is £112 per pt for as many appts as needed. We see the equivalent of half our patients every month. If you work out the numbers and have similar style contracts to the consultant contract it would cost 2-3 times to have a salaried GP service

Don't GP surgeries still get extra payments for managing chronic conditions like diabetes and things like depression, etc?? Don't they also get extra funding for things like covid and flu jabs and other initiatives? It's really not just £112 per patient is it??

Musicaltheatremum · 06/04/2025 14:21

taxguru · 06/04/2025 13:28

Don't GP surgeries still get extra payments for managing chronic conditions like diabetes and things like depression, etc?? Don't they also get extra funding for things like covid and flu jabs and other initiatives? It's really not just £112 per patient is it??

I just looked at my practice accounts for 23/24 and we got on average an extra £12.50 per patient for all the extras we do for them. Diabetes flu jags etc so £124.50 per patient. Also with the extended hours bit of the contract they actually took money away from our core hours and made us open longer to get it back so very little incentive.

Independent contractor status is a bit of a laugh really as yes we can run the service to a certain extent how we want to but actually we have about 100pages of a contract to fulfil with the health boards so they actually tell us what hours we have to open and what we have to do in those hours. I'm retired now but I'd be interested to know how the new NI contributions are going to affect them. Some practices may go under with this.
The last year I was in practice we spent £22k on new boilers and £25k on tarmacing our carpark. Ok we don't get this every year but it's just an idea of costs that hospital staff don't have to factor in. Increases in cleaning, heating,postage, telephone systems etc all affect us.

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