Whatever happened to the National Front? Is this just history repeating?

[GoingDownLikeBHS]

DD23 was asking me was it like this when I was young - is the racism worse now or in the 70s/80s? Made me think - we had the National Front and the Anti-Nazi League, and aged 16 I was a keen member of the latter. I remember marches and some protests but not sure how accurately I'm recalling it. According to Wikipedia, at one time in the 1970s, the NF was the fourth largest "political" party in the UK!

Apparently rules were put in place so that NF members were barred from certain professions - sounds like a sterling idea, and surely one which we should apply to the English Defence League and the hams taking part in the violence now. Just hoping these current thugs go the same way as the NF/BNP and fade into obscurity.

Have we seen this all before? Personally it seems more serious, more threatening, but then in the 70/80s we didn't have any social media. What do other older MNetters remember?

(I think someone else has a thread going about the National Trust and I had to look twice to see if I'd made a typo ...!!)

I think they just rebranded themselves the English Defence League or some such. Same old gang of racists thugs though.

Apparently rules were put in place so that NF members were barred from certain professions

I don't remember that - can you elaborate.

@Westfacing its on the NF Wikipedia page and I sort of remember it was police and teaching? But I can't find any evidence other than Wikipedia. Still a good idea though.

I think whilst we had reasonable general living conditions, so dissent didn't really have the conditions to flourish.

Politicians have ignored the underlying problems that really mean these problems are flourishing. From Tony Blair bringing in unrestricted immigration (numbers skyrocketed) to massaging the unemployment figures by increasing the school leaving age to tory austerity and cost of living meaning poorer living standards. Oh and David Camerons specific brand of blame the scapegoat politics. All these mean that those rioting have less reason not to riot.

Make no mistake the spaces in prison for the rioters will be coming from releasing prisioners early, up to 60% early in some cases. Punishment isn't much or a disincentive either if you are likely to only serve 50% of an already meagre sentence.

And yes law makers have failed to regulate social media or the algorithms that are inadvertently designed to make people more extreme.

Didn't Mick Lynch give a speech about this the other day? He was referencing Tony Benn about always being vigilant. This stuff never goes away just rebrands itself. Not quite answering your point but it popped into my head. My 27 year old was asking the same thing. It's frightening but not new either. People used to just talk and meet in pubs and you could avoid them. Social media means they blurt out their thoughts in public.

I remember Blair Peach. Wasn't he killed during a protest?

Seen it all before again and again, set an anti nazi league up where I live.

took 3 coach loads to the 90s version of rock against racism

from a small town.

the rise of the far right always occurs when we have an evening down turn, and absence of a decent left alternative

hopefully labour will at least see us to better. Times and back in to the woodwork they will go.

Blair Peach was in the SWP at the time he was killed btw

Name-changed for this. My brother was involved in the NF and BNP as a teenager in the 90s. He got in with a group of older males, I think they must have 'recruited' him and some of his friends. I remember them coming to the house, they all had skinheads and greeted each other with Heil Hitler, HH or 88. Racial slurs were used constantly. My brother was arrested at one point while out with this group. I'm not sure what they did. It was all very This is England. That film upset me a lot.

So I'm not sure. My feeling is it's about the same, only they have a platform and relative anonymity now. Back then it was more like secret meetings and talking in code.

I feel very sad for the young people being recruited into this. My brother was angry and struggling with our home life so was an easy target. He's not involved in any of this stuff anymore.

There was an interesting caller on Any Answers this week, around 2/3 of the way in. A young man who'd got involved with stuff like this over lockdown but had since turned things around.

They rear thier heads every few years .. From Mosley & his black shirts, to Enoch Powell, The NF, The BNP, The EDL ,.. whatever they are calling themselves now.

They will go away again .. Tommy Robinson isn’t going to carried onto number 10, on the shoulders of working class people anytime soon

@sunshinelollipopsrainbowseverywhere wow, how did he make the decision to leave these groups? Does he still have any of these views? It would be interesting to see if you feel he is 'deradicalised' - or maybe that's not the right term for it. Maybe then there would be some hope that it would work for some of the thugs rioting currently

I think that with the internet and mobile communications, whilst the bile is still the same, the methods and organisation are different.

I do think that racism was more prevalent in the 70s and 80s though. Just read of the experience of the few black footballers there were at the time, and the abuse they got from men who followed the team they played for.

Not sure if you mean my brother, the Any Answers caller, or both?

Brother - I remember being told he had a girlfriend when he was in his mid 20s, and I was astonished to learn she was a PoC. It was quite a serious relationship too, they had met each other's families. I tried to tactfully express my surprise to my mum privately and she said, oh no, he has nothing to do with any of that anymore. That was 15 odd years ago now.

We don't have a lot of contact but he's close to my mum. I've learnt all sorts of things about him that have surprised me as they're totally at odds with how he was as a teenager. He seems like a very caring and sensitive person. I've been wondering how he feels about the riots, it's possibly quite upsetting for him.

AA caller - he joined a church. It sounded like he had spent a lot of time reflecting on his beliefs and came across as a very self-aware and pleasant young man. I think for many it's attractive because it offers a sense of belonging, community and opportunities to express overwhelming feelings of anger and confusing emotions. I very much doubt my teenage brother cared about immigration, it was just a proxy.

I remember the NF in town, marching in numbers. They used to hand out leaflets at the football and I saw coppers taking them. I think that the advent of CCTV has helped, as violent idiots are more wary of being identified, so are less badly behaved.

The Nf sold a paper called British bulldog outside football grounds and it had a league table of what football firms were most active.
The far right has always recruited from the football hooligan elements.
The names change Nf,BNP,C18, Britain first but the message doesn't change.

Thanks for the update! I originally meant your brother. It's so great to hear that he's distanced himself from that rubbish now.

I remember the NF in our small town too.

Living in this town, other than British people, there was one Pakistani family, who ran a women’s clothing shop, two Chinese families, one who owned a takeaway; the other, a restaurant, and a black doctor, and his family. They were all second generation and had lived in Britain all their lives.

The NF supporters used to hold mini ‘riots’ every so often, where they’d smash the windows of the clothing shop and restaurant (the takeaway was further out, so they generally couldn’t be arsed going that far).

Even as a kid, I just didn’t get why they’d spoil something they often used. They’d go to the restaurant; their girlfriends bought from the shop. I thought they were stupid when I was 10, and my view hasn’t changed 40+ years later.

Thevelvelletes · Today 19:32

Thanks for that information, I remember it now, I saw it in pubs from time to time.

Back in the 80s I joined the National Front because I strongly suspected their true position was far more extreme than the already extreme positions they were publicly promoting.

I was absolutely right. I was sent a load of pamphlets that essentially mirrored Hitler's nazis. Vile drawings of Jews, all the horrors of a belief that BAME people were intrinsically inferior...

I suspected it would be bad but it was far worse. What these guys believed was horrific and I'd be surprised if the current iterations are any better.

It was also populated by weirdos with uniform fetishes and latent homosexual tendancies which is relevant for an organisation that hated gay people.
I remember one middle aged guy that liked to spend weekends with teenage skinheads ,he was later convicted of child abuse material in his possession.

I'd forgotten about that. For anyone interested, here's an archived copy:

https://archive.org/details/bulldog_ynf_03/mode/2up

So heartening for me this thread.

Here is a song by Chumbawumba written long ago, traditional English folk style.

The day the nazi died.

We are told that after the war
The Nazis vanished without a trace
But battalions of fascist still dreamed of a master race.

The History books they tell of their defeat in ‘45
But they all came out of the woodwork on the day the nazi died.

They say the prisoner of Spandau was a symbol of defeat
Whilst Hess remained imprisoned, then the fascist they were beat.

So the promise of an Aryan world would never materialise
So why did they all come out of the woodwork,
On the day the nazi died.

The world is riddled with maggots
The maggots are getting fat
they are making a tasty meal out of all the bosses and bureaucrats

they are taking over the boardrooms and their fat and full of pride.
And they all came out of the woodwork on the day the nazi died.

So if you meet with these historians
I’ll tell you what to say
Tell them that the nazis never really went away

They are out burning houses down
And peddling racist lies

And I will never rest again until every nazi dies.

Only song i could ever sing without being booed.

Reasonable living conditions in the 70s and 80s? Not in huge parts of the UK. Not in any way.

Yes, they were doing slum clearance in the West End of Newcastle! Absolute haven for us unruly kids...

House prices in relation to average earnings
https://www.schroders.com/en-gb/uk/individual/insights/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/

Poor social mobility

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds

Access to healthcare. Eg As a child of the 80's, when I saw the GP, I has the same GP as my parents, my grandparents and I saw them everytime. My chorically ill son cant even be allocated a regular gp, can't get ANY doctor to turn up to a regular process that needs GPS involvement.

Access to council housing
https://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us/campaigns/social_housing_deficit

Social media causing mental health difficulties

None of these suggest life is getting easier