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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Separation and house

43 replies

Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 21:31

Not sure where to post this as my first time starting a thread, so apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Looking for advice on behalf of someone else but the situation is as follows:

Person A and Person B (unmarried) decide to buy a house together. Person B cannot get a mortgage (not even as a joint applicant) but Person A can get a mortgage solely in their name. Person B gifts money they have saved to Person A to put towards the deposit (Person A also contributes a similar deposit amount) and signs a disclaimer to say they are gifting the money.

The property is purchased solely in Person As name, the mortgage is in their name only and the property is registered at Land Registry solely in their name.

3 years later Person A and Person B decide they no longer wish to live together. Does Person B have a legal claim on the property? Are they legally (not morally) entitled to any money?

Legal advice will be sought but wondered if anyone could assist in the meantime?

Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Wolfpa · 04/08/2024 21:35

Legally person B is not entitled to anything, they signed a disclaimer to say the deposit was a gift giving them no recourse.

JacquesHarlow · 04/08/2024 21:36

Why Person B would sign “a disclaimer” to gift the money, is anyone’s guess. They were terribly advised or not advised at all.

However are you sure you’re not Person A, @Howlongisittomynextholiday ?

tickabillia · 04/08/2024 21:37

Person B has royally fucked up. Should have had a tenants in common agreement drawn up specifying that they owned whatever percentage of the property the money they gifted had purchased.

Don't know if you're person A or B but if you're A you're a c-nt and if you're B you're a fool.

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 21:40

I am neither Person A nor B. I have been very happily married for a very long time and no longer have a mortgage.

As I stated in my original post, I am looking for advice on behalf of someone else!

OP posts:
tickabillia · 04/08/2024 21:42

Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 21:40

I am neither Person A nor B. I have been very happily married for a very long time and no longer have a mortgage.

As I stated in my original post, I am looking for advice on behalf of someone else!

Person B has no legal claim on the property.

They sound very vulnerable if they can't work this stuff out for themselves, hopefully you can put them in touch with support services.

GoldenPombear · 04/08/2024 21:42

Are you asking on behalf of A or B ? B has been monumentally stupid. They gifted the money and signed to confirm this. They have no legal claim on the house.

Presumably B didn't get any legal advice? Person A saw them coming.

SonicTheHodgeheg · 04/08/2024 21:43

Where do they live ?

If England, then B made a massive mistake giving the gift because it means that they didn’t want that money back ever.

Did B contribute to any home improvements ?

JacquesHarlow · 04/08/2024 21:44

As I stated in my original post, I am looking for advice on behalf of someone else!

Well they should be looking from advice from a solicitor @Howlongisittomynextholiday … ok? First stop, legal advice for this one.

Are you going to do a chat GPT summary of all the responses on this thread, or hope for a solicitor to come along for free and “clarify” their rights?

YABU.

Teamlilac · 04/08/2024 21:45

The problem is that when the bank asks you to sign something its for a reason... when you feel like you can circumvent that because it doesnt apply to you ... and then find yourself in a tricky spot... theres no recourse because... it does apply to you...
Morally they may choose to help but legally they havent a claim

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 21:57

I'm not going to disclose whether I am asking on behalf of Person A or Person B, nor am I hoping for a solicitor to come along for free and clarify their rights.

As I stated, legal advice will be sought (tomorrow). I was trying to obtain an understanding of the legal position beforehand so that the person I am asking on behalf of knows what to expect.

Person A and Person B live in England and Person B has contributed to home improvements as has Person A.

OP posts:
burgundymug · 04/08/2024 21:58

I really hope Person B isn't your daughter.

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 22:00

I don't have children and have only ever posted in the holiday section before, but have been a long time reader of various threads.

OP posts:
StormingNorman · 04/08/2024 22:06

I hope person A acts with moral integrity whatever the legal opinion is.

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 22:08

Also, just to add that both Person A and Person B were advised accordingly at the time of purchase but chose to ignore the advice given, hence why I am asking the question.

Thanks to all who have responded, at least the person knows what to expect tomorrow.

OP posts:
Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 22:10

StormingNorman · 04/08/2024 22:06

I hope person A acts with moral integrity whatever the legal opinion is.

That's why I clearly stated that I wasn't asking from a moral standpoint. Morally is a whole different ball game.

OP posts:
VelvetChaise · 04/08/2024 22:13

Unfortunately person B are highly unlikely to have any legal claim on the house, unless they made direct payments to the mortgage itself, and even then it is complex.

Cohabitation rights are a big gap in the legal landscape unfortunately (identified as a key priority in the Labour manifesto though).

See this legal guide here (even if A/B are not women)

https://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/family-law-information/a-guide-to-living-together-and-the-law/

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 04/08/2024 22:14

Legally it all belongs to A now. Bs only chance if getting it back is if A choses to give it to them. A should pay it out, morally its the right thing to do. I expect the bank required this, it's not unusual though the more common reason is parents putting money in. The bank don't want anyone else with a claim to the house if they need to repose and sell it. The only legal recourse I can think of for B is if they were in a coerce relationship and signed under duress. It's contract law not family law. I'm not a lawyer, just did some contract law way to long ago at university so I have no idea if this applies, or hos expensive it would be or how hard if would be to pursue this.

www.claims.co.uk/knowledge-base/contract-law/duress-undue-influence-in-contracts#:~:text=Duress%20and%20undue%20influence%20essentially,consider%3A%20duress%20and%20undue%20influence.

TheSerenePinkOrca · 04/08/2024 22:18

It's not going to be hard for person B to prove that they have contributed to payments, house improvements, and the deposit.

(The bank transfer wills how the deposit payment, and it's a well known fact that mortgage companies insist on it being a GIFT for the sake of the mortgage, but in reality a judge will know otherwise...).

So if they put down equal deposits and have contributed equally, then person A should buy out person B and give them half the equity (get three EA valuations, take an average, then subtract the cost of selling fees).

VelvetChaise · 04/08/2024 22:22

TheSerenePinkOrca · 04/08/2024 22:18

It's not going to be hard for person B to prove that they have contributed to payments, house improvements, and the deposit.

(The bank transfer wills how the deposit payment, and it's a well known fact that mortgage companies insist on it being a GIFT for the sake of the mortgage, but in reality a judge will know otherwise...).

So if they put down equal deposits and have contributed equally, then person A should buy out person B and give them half the equity (get three EA valuations, take an average, then subtract the cost of selling fees).

Unfortunately legally this is all completely incorrect. No judge will just agree that the gift was stated as such to get around the mortgage and overrule a signed declaration unless you can prove coercion.

Irrespective of what they contributed, if person B are not on the mortgage or deeds they have zero legal right to any of the property.

Proven contribution to the mortgage or household expenses doesn’t count for anything here legally, even if we feel morally it should.

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 22:28

Person B did not sign under duress and wasn't coerced, they signed of their own free will. Both Person A and Person B were advised accordingly and chose to ignore the advice given.

Thanks again to all who have taken the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

OP posts:
burgundymug · 04/08/2024 22:30

Out of interest, how have they split the monthly mortgage payments?

Original poster
Howlongisittomynextholiday · 04/08/2024 22:33

burgundymug · 04/08/2024 22:30

Out of interest, how have they split the monthly mortgage payments?

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't asked them that question but will do tomorrow.

OP posts:
Barrenfieldoffucks · 04/08/2024 22:35

I would assume they had to sign saying it was a gift otherwise the mortgage company wouldn't have accepted it as a deposit.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 04/08/2024 22:36

Hopefully A will do the right thing here.

LiterallyOnFire · 04/08/2024 22:36

The disclaimer is for a reason and I'm assuming it's binding (otherwise why would mortgage companies accept them).